| Author |
Message |
iando
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:57 pm
Post subject: Article usage - a bit weird example |
|
|
There are two examples in which articles are used differently in similar
phrases.
Each of them is a part which comes from a news paper.
Example 1:
The Iceman (Note:the title of the article which shows the following sentence
is the first one in the article)
In 1992, at the very border of Austria and Italy, high up in the Alp
Mountains, the body of a man was found, and as they realized that he was
more than 5000 years old, they realized they had found a sensation.
Example 2:
a)They noticed a body of a man lying prone on the ditch on the field side.
The two people made their way to a nearby house to phone the Gardai.
b)The many symbols mentioned there are tattoos on a body of a man found
drowned.
In the first sentence a definite article is used before "body" in "the body
of a man" while in the second sentences indefinite articles are used before
"body" in "a body of a man".
According to general rules of article usage in form of Noun1 of Noun2 like
the above cases, if Noun1 is owned by Noun2 and Noun2 has only one N1,in
other words N1 is unique, a definite article is used before Noun1. If an
indefinite article is used, it suggests that N1 is not unique, in other
words N2 has more than one N1. So it looks odd to use an indefinite article
before "body" because a body of a man is supposed to be unique unless his
body is mutilated.
Does anyone answer and clarify the following questions?
i)Is general rule wrong in some cases?
ii)Why does such sentences as Example 2 exist, if the above general rules
always hold?
iii) What is the difference in meaning between Examle 1 and Example 2?
Thanks
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
John O'Flaherty
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Article usage - a bit weird example |
|
|
iando wrote:
| Quote: | There are two examples in which articles are used differently in similar
phrases.
Each of them is a part which comes from a news paper.
Example 1:
The Iceman (Note:the title of the article which shows the following sentence
is the first one in the article)
In 1992, at the very border of Austria and Italy, high up in the Alp
Mountains, the body of a man was found, and as they realized that he was
more than 5000 years old, they realized they had found a sensation.
Example 2:
a)They noticed a body of a man lying prone on the ditch on the field side.
The two people made their way to a nearby house to phone the Gardai.
b)The many symbols mentioned there are tattoos on a body of a man found
drowned.
In the first sentence a definite article is used before "body" in "the body
of a man" while in the second sentences indefinite articles are used before
"body" in "a body of a man".
According to general rules of article usage in form of Noun1 of Noun2 like
the above cases, if Noun1 is owned by Noun2 and Noun2 has only one N1,in
other words N1 is unique, a definite article is used before Noun1. If an
indefinite article is used, it suggests that N1 is not unique, in other
words N2 has more than one N1. So it looks odd to use an indefinite article
before "body" because a body of a man is supposed to be unique unless his
body is mutilated.
Does anyone answer and clarify the following questions?
i)Is general rule wrong in some cases?
ii)Why does such sentences as Example 2 exist, if the above general rules
always hold?
iii) What is the difference in meaning between Examle 1 and Example 2?
|
"A body of a man" sounds wrong to me, "the body of a man" sounds right.
Or you could say "a man's body". Even if it were an item that a man
might have many of, such as a shirt, you would still say "the shirt of
a man was found" rather than "a shirt of a man". It's as if it were
wrong to specify the indefiniteness twice.
--
john |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Don Phillipson
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Article usage - a bit weird example |
|
|
"iando" <iando@abox.so-net.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:newscache$nmifpi$5im$1@news01d.so-net.ne.jp...
| Quote: | Example 1:
The Iceman (Note:the title of the article which shows the following
sentence
is the first one in the article)
In 1992, at the very border of Austria and Italy, high up in the Alp
Mountains, the body of a man was found, and as they realized that he was
more than 5000 years old, they realized they had found a sensation.
|
This sentence contains so many errors as to warn us
it should not be used as a model or source.
1. Redundancies (a) "very", (b) repeated "they realized."
2. They is an English personal pronoun, substituting for
a noun or proper name: but this sentence lacks any
referent for "they."
3. There are no "Alp Mountains". An alp is a mountain
pasture. The Alps is a mountainous part of Europe, but
English usage has no "Alp Mountains."
4. "Sensation" is wrong (in more than one way.)
| Quote: | According to general rules of article usage in form of Noun1 of Noun2 like
the above cases, if Noun1 is owned by Noun2 and Noun2 has only one N1,in
other words N1 is unique, a definite article is used before Noun1. If an
indefinite article is used, it suggests that N1 is not unique, in other
words N2 has more than one N1. So it looks odd to use an indefinite
article
before "body" because a body of a man is supposed to be unique unless his
body is mutilated.
|
This supposed rule does not help us either understand
Example 1 or evaluate its quality. Example 1 has no
erroneous uses of the definite or indefinite article.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim Lawton
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Article usage - a bit weird example |
|
|
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 20:57:14 +0900, "iando" <iando@abox.so-net.ne.jp> wrote:
| Quote: | There are two examples in which articles are used differently in similar
phrases.
Each of them is a part which comes from a news paper.
Example 1:
The Iceman (Note:the title of the article which shows the following sentence
is the first one in the article)
In 1992, at the very border of Austria and Italy, high up in the Alp
Mountains, the body of a man was found, and as they realized that he was
more than 5000 years old, they realized they had found a sensation.
Example 2:
a)They noticed a body of a man lying prone on the ditch on the field side.
The two people made their way to a nearby house to phone the Gardai.
b)The many symbols mentioned there are tattoos on a body of a man found
drowned.
In the first sentence a definite article is used before "body" in "the body
of a man" while in the second sentences indefinite articles are used before
"body" in "a body of a man".
According to general rules of article usage in form of Noun1 of Noun2 like
the above cases, if Noun1 is owned by Noun2 and Noun2 has only one N1,in
other words N1 is unique, a definite article is used before Noun1. If an
indefinite article is used, it suggests that N1 is not unique, in other
words N2 has more than one N1. So it looks odd to use an indefinite article
before "body" because a body of a man is supposed to be unique unless his
body is mutilated.
Does anyone answer and clarify the following questions?
i)Is general rule wrong in some cases?
ii)Why does such sentences as Example 2 exist, if the above general rules
always hold?
iii) What is the difference in meaning between Examle 1 and Example 2?
|
These do not have the appearance of having been written by a native speaker. For
instance, "The Alp Mountains" are always "The Alps". There are several others,
including the misapplication of articles which you note. You should not
therefore be using these as an example of any sort of idiomatic English usage.
--
Jim
the polymoth |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bob
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Article usage - a bit weird example |
|
|
On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 20:57:14 +0900, iando wrote:
| Quote: | There are two examples in which articles are used differently in similar
phrases.
Each of them is a part which comes from a news paper. Example 1:
The Iceman (Note:the title of the article which shows the following
sentence is the first one in the article)
In 1992, at the very border of Austria and Italy, high up in the Alp
Mountains, the body of a man was found, and as they realized that he was
more than 5000 years old, they realized they had found a sensation.
Example 2:
a)They noticed a body of a man lying prone on the ditch on the field side.
The two people made their way to a nearby house to phone the Gardai. b)The
many symbols mentioned there are tattoos on a body of a man found drowned.
|
I think "a body of a man" is incorrect. Since any man has only one body it
must be *the* body that was found. "A man" means that we weren't
expecting the body to be that of any specific man. We could say "A body
was found. It was that of a man."
If we were looking for a specific man in the first place we could then say
"the body of the man". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Django Cat
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:08 am
Post subject: Re: Article usage - a bit weird example |
|
|
iando wrote:
| Quote: | There are two examples in which articles are used differently in
similar phrases.
Each of them is a part which comes from a news paper.
Example 1:
The Iceman (Note:the title of the article which shows the following
sentence is the first one in the article)
In 1992, at the very border of Austria and Italy, high up in the Alp
Mountains, the body of a man was found, and as they realized that he
was more than 5000 years old, they realized they had found a
sensation.
|
Dunno, I'll leave it to others to pick this one apart.
However, next time you're in Bolzano, pay Otzi the iceman a visit.
He's well worth seeing, with a very informative exhibition (as long as
you can read German or Italian). Otzi himself lies in a giant fridge,
isn't gruesome, and looks a lot like a peaceful kipper.
DC |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in