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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:13 pm
Post subject: Somebody did some editing |
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Yesterday I read in the St. Paul Pioneer Press a humorous opinion piece
by Michael Kinsley, originally published in the Washington Post. It
concerned the Plame/Libby scandal (there doesn't seem to be any handy
label for this besides "Plamegate," and very few writers appear to be
using that).
At one point, Kinsley said of the New York Times: "First seen charging
up the hill, demanding the appointment of a special prosecutor to get
to the bottom of this outrage, it soon was charging back down,
complaining that the special prosecutor was asking journalists to
finger the leaker. Whom else would you ask?"
A couple of paragraphs later, Kinsley wrote: "Everyone assumed that
Miller's source was Snapper. Him and/or Karl Rove (another great name,
especially for the official bad guy)." ("Snapper" is a parody of the
name "Scooter" Libby--Kinsley finds the names of the individuals
involved in the scandal to be amusing.)
I thought it was odd that Kinsley would use "whom" and "him" as he did.
I would have expected either "who" and "him" (idiomatic) or "whom" and
"he" (traditional).
When I decided to write a post about this, I looked at the piece again,
but this time in the Minneapolis StarTribune. Lo and behold! In that
paper "Him and/or Karl Rove" remained the same, but the sentence
containing "Whom" was now "Who else would you ask?"
As I said in my subject line, somebody did some editing.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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ray o'hara
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1130915613.289562.313890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Yesterday I read in the St. Paul Pioneer Press a humorous opinion piece
by Michael Kinsley, originally published in the Washington Post. It
concerned the Plame/Libby scandal (there doesn't seem to be any handy
label for this besides "Plamegate," and very few writers appear to be
using that).
|
The Repubublicans are doing a fine job of keeping the scandal from being
"gated". If they can keep it from being gated then it isn't a real scandal.
| Quote: | At one point, Kinsley said of the New York Times: "First seen charging
up the hill, demanding the appointment of a special prosecutor to get
to the bottom of this outrage, it soon was charging back down,
complaining that the special prosecutor was asking journalists to
finger the leaker. Whom else would you ask?"
A couple of paragraphs later, Kinsley wrote: "Everyone assumed that
Miller's source was Snapper. Him and/or Karl Rove (another great name,
especially for the official bad guy)." ("Snapper" is a parody of the
name "Scooter" Libby--Kinsley finds the names of the individuals
involved in the scandal to be amusing.)
I thought it was odd that Kinsley would use "whom" and "him" as he did.
I would have expected either "who" and "him" (idiomatic) or "whom" and
"he" (traditional).
When I decided to write a post about this, I looked at the piece again,
but this time in the Minneapolis StarTribune. Lo and behold! In that
paper "Him and/or Karl Rove" remained the same, but the sentence
containing "Whom" was now "Who else would you ask?"
As I said in my subject line, somebody did some editing.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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Harvey Van Sickle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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On 02 Nov 2005, ray o'hara wrote
| Quote: | "Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1130915613.289562.313890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Yesterday I read in the St. Paul Pioneer Press a humorous
opinion piece by Michael Kinsley, originally published in the
Washington Post. It concerned the Plame/Libby scandal (there
doesn't seem to be any handy label for this besides
"Plamegate," and very few writers appear to be using that).
The Repubublicans are doing a fine job of keeping the scandal
from being "gated". If they can keep it from being gated then
it isn't a real scandal.
|
It's clearly the popular name for it, regardless of what the media
have decided to do. Google News returns 20,500 hits on "Plame",
with just 478 for "Plamegate" -- but a general Google for
"Plamegate" gets 2.5 million hits.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van
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Harvey Van Sickle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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On 02 Nov 2005, Raymond S. Wise wrote
| Quote: | Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
On 02 Nov 2005, ray o'hara wrote
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1130915613.289562.313890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Yesterday I read in the St. Paul Pioneer Press a humorous
opinion piece by Michael Kinsley, originally published in
the Washington Post. It concerned the Plame/Libby scandal
(there doesn't seem to be any handy label for this besides
"Plamegate," and very few writers appear to be using that).
The Repubublicans are doing a fine job of keeping the
scandal from being "gated". If they can keep it from being
gated then it isn't a real scandal.
It's clearly the popular name for it, regardless of what the
media have decided to do. Google News returns 20,500 hits on
"Plame", with just 478 for "Plamegate" -- but a general
Google for "Plamegate" gets 2.5 million hits.
I wonder how many of those are from non-English-language
sources. I first encountered "Plamegate" on a French Web page.
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Or from non-American English sources. I'm sure I've seen
"Plamegate" used fairly frequently in UK newspapers.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
| Quote: | On 02 Nov 2005, ray o'hara wrote
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1130915613.289562.313890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Yesterday I read in the St. Paul Pioneer Press a humorous
opinion piece by Michael Kinsley, originally published in the
Washington Post. It concerned the Plame/Libby scandal (there
doesn't seem to be any handy label for this besides
"Plamegate," and very few writers appear to be using that).
The Repubublicans are doing a fine job of keeping the scandal
from being "gated". If they can keep it from being gated then
it isn't a real scandal.
It's clearly the popular name for it, regardless of what the media
have decided to do. Google News returns 20,500 hits on "Plame",
with just 478 for "Plamegate" -- but a general Google for
"Plamegate" gets 2.5 million hits.
|
I wonder how many of those are from non-English-language sources. I
first encountered "Plamegate" on a French Web page.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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On 2 Nov 2005 00:37:25 -0800, "Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com>
wrought:
| Quote: | Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
On 02 Nov 2005, ray o'hara wrote
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1130915613.289562.313890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Yesterday I read in the St. Paul Pioneer Press a humorous
opinion piece by Michael Kinsley, originally published in the
Washington Post. It concerned the Plame/Libby scandal (there
doesn't seem to be any handy label for this besides
"Plamegate," and very few writers appear to be using that).
The Repubublicans are doing a fine job of keeping the scandal
from being "gated". If they can keep it from being gated then
it isn't a real scandal.
It's clearly the popular name for it, regardless of what the media
have decided to do. Google News returns 20,500 hits on "Plame",
with just 478 for "Plamegate" -- but a general Google for
"Plamegate" gets 2.5 million hits.
I wonder how many of those are from non-English-language sources. I
first encountered "Plamegate" on a French Web page.
|
Well, it's been common on the leading US political blogs for several
months now. Joe Cannon (http://cannonfire.blogspot.com) and Brad
Friedman (www.bradblog.com) both started using it in July, although
the latter chopped and changed between "Plamegate" and "Rovegate" for
a few weeks before settling on the former.
In its earlier days -- when the focus was still on the outing of Mrs
Wilson* as a CIA agent as a reprisal for her husband's unsporting
insistence on telling the truth rather than on Libby the Fibby -- the
scandal was often called "Traitorgate" and "Nigergate".
[* Yes, that's the name she has gone under for years, ever she married
Yellowcake Joe. Quite why she is being referred to in all the meeja by
her maiden name, Plame (which she doesn't even use Rodhamliwise as a
middle name), is just part of the mystery -- or even part of the
smoking gun, for the more conspiratorially inclined.]
--
Ross Howard |
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Michèle°
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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Après mure réflexion, Raymond S. Wise a écrit :
| Quote: |
I wonder how many of those are from non-English-language sources. I
first encountered "Plamegate" on a French Web page.
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What is "plamegate"? |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 10:49:24 +0100, "Michèle°" <invalid@yahoo.fr>
wrought:
| Quote: | Après mure réflexion, Raymond S. Wise a écrit :
I wonder how many of those are from non-English-language sources. I
first encountered "Plamegate" on a French Web page.
What is "plamegate"?
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Ridarch the Learnhiot's dynasty.
What's Falcon Crest?
--
Ross Howard |
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Michèle°
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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Ross Howard a exposé le 02/11/2005 :
| Quote: | On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 10:49:24 +0100, "Michèle°" <invalid@yahoo.fr
wrought:
Après mure réflexion, Raymond S. Wise a écrit :
I wonder how many of those are from non-English-language sources. I
first encountered "Plamegate" on a French Web page.
What is "plamegate"?
Ridarch the Learnhiot's dynasty.
What's Falcon Crest?
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J'ai compris, merci.. |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1130915613.289562.313890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Yesterday I read in the St. Paul Pioneer Press a humorous opinion
piece
by Michael Kinsley, originally published in the Washington Post. It
concerned the Plame/Libby scandal (there doesn't seem to be any handy
label for this besides "Plamegate," and very few writers appear to be
using that).
Plame doesn't have the requisite multisyllabic counterpart to carry on |
after Watergate and Monicagate (or Whitewatergate. . .which was a bit
cumbersome).
I think, considering Scott McClellan's fender words, that the press
missed a chance to start the Plamegame. |
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ray o'hara
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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"Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com> wrote in message
news:rQ4af.12652$Zv5.10936@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
| Quote: |
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1130915613.289562.313890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Yesterday I read in the St. Paul Pioneer Press a humorous opinion
piece
by Michael Kinsley, originally published in the Washington Post. It
concerned the Plame/Libby scandal (there doesn't seem to be any handy
label for this besides "Plamegate," and very few writers appear to be
using that).
Plame doesn't have the requisite multisyllabic counterpart to carry on
after Watergate and Monicagate (or Whitewatergate. . .which was a bit
cumbersome).
I think, considering Scott McClellan's fender words, that the press
missed a chance to start the Plamegame.
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I think Plamegate is a fine term that rolls easily off the tongue. |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:21:59 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1130915613.289562.313890@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Yesterday I read in the St. Paul Pioneer Press a humorous opinion
piece
by Michael Kinsley, originally published in the Washington Post. It
concerned the Plame/Libby scandal (there doesn't seem to be any handy
label for this besides "Plamegate," and very few writers appear to be
using that).
Plame doesn't have the requisite multisyllabic counterpart to carry on
after Watergate and Monicagate (or Whitewatergate. . .which was a bit
cumbersome).
|
Some people are using "Valeriegate" rather than Plamegate.
(55 hits on google)
That is suitably multisyllabic (or polysyllabic).
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u) |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:6srjm1l5i0jtuimsesf6hfogdqhi4vdqkl@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 15:21:59 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com
Plame doesn't have the requisite multisyllabic counterpart to carry
on
after Watergate and Monicagate (or Whitewatergate. . .which was a bit
cumbersome).
Some people are using "Valeriegate" rather than Plamegate.
(55 hits on google)
That is suitably multisyllabic (or polysyllabic).
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Agreed. |
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Mickwick
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson wrote:
| Quote: | Some people are using "Valeriegate" rather than Plamegate.
(55 hits on google)
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Mark Steyn has suggested 'Wankegate' in honour of the late Major Wanké,
the Nigerien caudillo who, perhaps uniquely, killed the incumbent
president, took power himself, said that he would step down as soon as
elections could be arranged and - *kept his promise*! He was in power
for only three or four months. Good man. (Nine googles, mostly blog
echoes of Steyn boasting about his invention.)
| Quote: | That is suitably multisyllabic (or polysyllabic).
|
It is, but it's not as Watergate-o-morphic as Wankegate.
--
Mickwick,
who has pushed an ancient Citroen coal-delivery lorry past Niger's Yellowcake
Mountains (vast trapezoid soil heaps on an otherwise totally empty gravel
plain), and there's not a lot of people can say that (and certainly none of the
canny Frenchmen who sat in the front and made the English and Germans do the
pushing). |
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Paul
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Somebody did some editing |
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Raymond S. Wise wrote:
| Quote: | A couple of paragraphs later, Kinsley wrote: "Everyone assumed that
Miller's source was Snapper. Him and/or Karl Rove (another great name,
especially for the official bad guy)." > --
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
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Looks ok to me. The second "sentence" is a deliberate fragment which
functions as a sort of afterthought continuation of the first one; but
I would have made the whole thing into one sentence and punctuated it
differently:
"Everyone assumed that Miller's source was Snapper--him and/or Karl
Rove (another great name,
especially for the official bad guy)."
Miller's source was him.
Kinsley took a risk in expecting people to read the first word of his
second "sentence" as an object, and evidently enough people criticized
him to make him change it.
It would have been neater to have omitted the "him," though: "Everyone
assumed that Miller's source was Snapper--and/or Karl Rove (another
great name, especially for the official bad guy)." |
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