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Salvatore Volatile
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:19 pm
Post subject: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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What's the origin or first usage of the construction "[Name], we hardly
knew ye"? EMWTK.
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Salvatore Volatile
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:26 pm
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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Wood Avens wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:19:42 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
me@privacy.net> wrote:
What's the origin or first usage of the construction "[Name], we hardly
knew ye"? EMWTK.
Probably from the Irish folk song "Johnny, we hardly knew ye", but
there's a lot of Googling to wade through for a specific date. Most
sites report that it predates the Civil War song "Johnny Comes
Marching Home".
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Thank you. Well, Coop's study of Hibernic folk musics can pay off, I see. |
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R J Valentine
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:29 pm
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:19:22 GMT Tony Cooper <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
} On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:19:42 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
} <me@privacy.net> wrote:
}
}>What's the origin or first usage of the construction "[Name], we hardly
}>knew ye"? EMWTK.
}>
} You'll probably find some Johnny-come-lately origin.
}
} Aroo, aroo.
So it was famous even before JFK got shot?
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:rj@theWorld.com>
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Tony Cooper
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:19 pm
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:19:42 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
<me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | What's the origin or first usage of the construction "[Name], we hardly
knew ye"? EMWTK.
You'll probably find some Johnny-come-lately origin. |
Aroo, aroo.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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Wood Avens
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:26 pm
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:19:42 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
<me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | What's the origin or first usage of the construction "[Name], we hardly
knew ye"? EMWTK.
|
Probably from the Irish folk song "Johnny, we hardly knew ye", but
there's a lot of Googling to wade through for a specific date. Most
sites report that it predates the Civil War song "Johnny Comes
Marching Home".
Here's onje version:
While goin' the road to sweet Athy, hurroo, hurroo
While goin' the road to sweet Athy, hurroo, hurroo
While goin' the road to sweet Athy,
A stick in me hand and a drop in me eye,
A doleful damsel I heard cry,
Johnny I hardly knew ye.
With your drums and guns and drums and guns, hurroo, hurroo
With your drums and guns and drums and guns, hurroo, hurroo
With your drums and guns and drums and guns,
The enemy nearly slew ye
Oh my darling dear, Ye look so queer
Johnny I hardly knew ye.
Where are your eyes that were so mild, hurroo, hurroo
Where are your eyes that were so mild, hurroo, hurroo
Where are your eyes that were so mild,
When my heart you so beguiled
Why did ye run from me and the child
Oh Johnny, I hardly knew ye
Where are your legs that used to run, hurroo, hurroo
Where are your legs that used to run, hurroo, hurroo
Where are your legs that used to run,
When you went for to carry a gun
Indeed your dancing days are done
Oh Johnny, I hardly knew ye
I'm happy for to see ye home, hurroo, hurroo
I'm happy for to see ye home, hurroo, hurroo
I'm happy for to see ye home,
All from the island of Sulloon;
So low in flesh, so high in bone
Oh Johnny I hardly knew ye
Ye haven't an arm, ye haven't a leg, hurroo, hurroo
Ye haven't an arm, ye haven't a leg, hurroo, hurroo
Ye haven't an arm, ye haven't a leg,
Ye're an armless, boneless, chickenless egg
Ye'll have to put with a bowl out to beg
Oh Johnny I hardly knew ye
They're rolling out the guns again, hurroo, hurroo
They're rolling out the guns again, hurroo, hurroo
They're rolling out the guns again,
But they never will take our sons again
No they never will take our sons again
Johnny I'm swearing to ye
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ |
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CDB
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:29 pm
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nev1m11lsma7vpo2jaekf55p5u4uh12fg4@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:19:42 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
me@privacy.net> wrote:
What's the origin or first usage of the construction "[Name], we
hardly
knew ye"? EMWTK.
You'll probably find some Johnny-come-lately origin.
Aroo, aroo.
|
OK, so what's the literal meaning of "chickenless egg" ? ("Sandwich
spread", says I.) |
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Maria Conlon
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:48 pm
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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Wood Avens wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:19:42 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
me@privacy.net> wrote:
What's the origin or first usage of the construction "[Name], we
hardly knew ye"? EMWTK.
Probably from the Irish folk song "Johnny, we hardly knew ye", but
there's a lot of Googling to wade through for a specific date. Most
sites report that it predates the Civil War song "Johnny Comes
Marching Home".
Here's onje version:
|
[snip]
I found another at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~irelandlist/lyrics.html#johnny
or
http://tinyurl.com/874q4
At that site, a rather haunting midi plays while the song lyrics are
being viewed. The tune is the same one used for the later (Civil War)
"Johnny Comes Marching Home."
Maria Conlon |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:24 am
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:29:58 -0400, "CDB" <unbellecd@sprint.ca> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nev1m11lsma7vpo2jaekf55p5u4uh12fg4@4ax.com...
On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:19:42 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
me@privacy.net> wrote:
What's the origin or first usage of the construction "[Name], we
hardly
knew ye"? EMWTK.
You'll probably find some Johnny-come-lately origin.
Aroo, aroo.
OK, so what's the literal meaning of "chickenless egg" ? ("Sandwich
spread", says I.)
The "chickenless egg" is a metaphor for a man with no purpose, no |
function. He's no good to anyone anymore.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:37 am
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:26:05 +0100, Wood Avens
<woodavens@askjennison.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 14:19:42 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
me@privacy.net> wrote:
What's the origin or first usage of the construction "[Name], we hardly
knew ye"? EMWTK.
Probably from the Irish folk song "Johnny, we hardly knew ye", but
there's a lot of Googling to wade through for a specific date. Most
sites report that it predates the Civil War song "Johnny Comes
Marching Home".
Here's onje version:
While goin' the road to sweet Athy, hurroo, hurroo
While goin' the road to sweet Athy, hurroo, hurroo
While goin' the road to sweet Athy,
A stick in me hand and a drop in me eye,
A doleful damsel I heard cry,
Johnny I hardly knew ye.
|
Athy's a town in Ireland.
| Quote: | With your drums and guns and drums and guns, hurroo, hurroo
With your drums and guns and drums and guns, hurroo, hurroo
With your drums and guns and drums and guns,
The enemy nearly slew ye
Oh my darling dear, Ye look so queer
Johnny I hardly knew ye.
Where are your eyes that were so mild, hurroo, hurroo
Where are your eyes that were so mild, hurroo, hurroo
Where are your eyes that were so mild,
When my heart you so beguiled
Why did ye run from me and the child
|
This line is often overlooked by those discussing this anti-war song.
It sets the scene for the bitterness of all the verses because it's
voiced by the girl that Johnny left to go off to war. It's not Johnny
that's bitter, it's the girl he left behind.
| Quote: | Oh Johnny, I hardly knew ye
Where are your legs that used to run, hurroo, hurroo
Where are your legs that used to run, hurroo, hurroo
Where are your legs that used to run,
When you went for to carry a gun
Indeed your dancing days are done
Oh Johnny, I hardly knew ye
I'm happy for to see ye home, hurroo, hurroo
I'm happy for to see ye home, hurroo, hurroo
I'm happy for to see ye home,
All from the island of Sulloon;
|
Ceylon, now Sri Lanka, and a reference to the British occupation in
1795.
| Quote: | So low in flesh, so high in bone
Oh Johnny I hardly knew ye
Ye haven't an arm, ye haven't a leg, hurroo, hurroo
Ye haven't an arm, ye haven't a leg, hurroo, hurroo
Ye haven't an arm, ye haven't a leg,
Ye're an armless, boneless, chickenless egg
Ye'll have to put with a bowl out to beg
Oh Johnny I hardly knew ye
They're rolling out the guns again, hurroo, hurroo
They're rolling out the guns again, hurroo, hurroo
They're rolling out the guns again,
But they never will take our sons again
No they never will take our sons again
Johnny I'm swearing to ye
|
Some say this verse was added later.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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batdorf
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:39 am
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:mo62m15t2j0uctu191rgiudq51514o2lls@4ax.com...
| Quote: | The "chickenless egg" is a metaphor for a man with no purpose, no
function. He's no good to anyone anymore.
|
I think Samuel Johnson suggested that a chicken was merely the means by
which an egg could produce another egg...the song seems to have done
away with the middleman!
HumphreyB |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:59 am
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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batdorf wrote:
| Quote: | "Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:mo62m15t2j0uctu191rgiudq51514o2lls@4ax.com...
The "chickenless egg" is a metaphor for a man with no purpose, no
function. He's no good to anyone anymore.
I think Samuel Johnson suggested that a chicken was merely the means by
which an egg could produce another egg...the song seems to have done
away with the middleman!
|
Google seems to think it was Samuel Butler. "A hen is only an egg's
way of making another egg."
--
Jerry Friedman |
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batdorf
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:12 am
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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<jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:1130443155.076324.154980@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | Google seems to think it was Samuel Butler. "A hen is only an egg's
way of making another egg."
|
That sounds better.
I only have it in Spanish ("Una gallina es sólo la manera que tiene un
huevo de hacer más huevos") And what matter a Butler or a Johnson when
Nadal and Alonso are sweeping all before them!
Thankyou.
HumphreyB |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:26 am
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | batdorf wrote:
"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:mo62m15t2j0uctu191rgiudq51514o2lls@4ax.com...
The "chickenless egg" is a metaphor for a man with no purpose, no
function. He's no good to anyone anymore.
I think Samuel Johnson suggested that a chicken was merely the means by
which an egg could produce another egg...the song seems to have done
away with the middleman!
|
It's the hen that's the middleman - uh, middlewoman. Calling a hen a
chicken has got to be a 20th-century urban development (roughly).
Anyway, why not consider a chickenless egg to mean an empty shell?
| Quote: |
Google seems to think it was Samuel Butler. "A hen is only an egg's
way of making another egg."
|
Well, whaddya know, for once googling a quotation turns up the *right*
answer. Bartleby.com confirms you:
The Columbia World of Quotations. 1996.
NUMBER: 9439
QUOTATION: A hen is only an egg's way of making
another egg.
ATTRIBUTION: Samuel Butler (1835-1902), British
author. Life and Habit, ch. 8 (1877).
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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batdorf
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:11 am
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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"Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> escribió en el mensaje
news:1h543fa.hcydw919fuy5gN%trio@euronet.nl...
| Quote: | It's the hen that's the middleman - uh, middlewoman. Calling a hen a
chicken has got to be a 20th-century urban development (roughly).
|
Could be, Donna.
Once, life was so straightforward!
(I am always amused by the latin notion that babies are "masculine"
until they stop filling nappies, after which point they became
genderised (?!)...Mmm.)
Actually, though, I think you have to consider whether or not "chickens"
only become "chickens" (after the fluffy yellow period!) when we eat
them...
HumphreyB |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:08 am
Post subject: Re: We Hardly Knew Ye |
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trio@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) writes:
| Quote: | It's the hen that's the middleman - uh, middlewoman. Calling a hen a
chicken has got to be a 20th-century urban development (roughly).
|
The OED cites the "domestic fowl of any age" to 1827. As a mass noun,
they have a 1677 quote "In Chicken and other Fowl" which appears to
use it to name the species.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The Society for the Preservation of
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Tithesis commends your ebriated and
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |scrutable use of delible and
|defatigable, which are gainly, sipid
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |and couth. We are gruntled and
(650)857-7572 |consolate that you have the ertia and
|eptitude to choose such putably
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |pensible tithesis, which we parage. |
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