Here We Go Again with Holloween
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Here We Go Again with Holloween

 
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Gary Eickmeier
Guest
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween" and the
other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me nuts.

Gary Eickmeier

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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Quote:
Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween" and the
other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me nuts.


The online edition of Webster's Third shows the "hollow" pronunciation
as a controversial one, although used by standard speakers. It
indicates this by means of an obelus (for which the editors use a
division sign, ÷) placed before the pronunciation in question.

That appears to represent 1960's usage, however (as most entries in
Webster's Third still do, even in the online version). As far back as
the _Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary,_ copyright 1981 (principal
copyright 1973) the "hollow" pronunciation was shown without an obelus,
meaning that it is an equal variant, that is, just as standard as the
other version.


--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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ray o'hara
Guest
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:si33m11gf8ccj7kb1jef5hvbmp1vpnskh4@4ax.com...
Quote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 02:34:32 GMT, Tony Cooper
tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:

Meant to post this to both groups.


On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:41:29 GMT, Gary Eickmeier
geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween" and the
other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me nuts.

Laura Spira seems to enjoy reading about odd insights into the lives
and personalities of the posters here like who wears nightshirts and
who has an aunt with a goiter, but I find it much more interesting to
see what drives other posters nuts.

I think we have the potential here for one of those plays like "Noises
Off" where the setting is an all-aue boink and various characters
react to their peeves and are exposed for their eccentricities.

It would be an ensemble farce with much slamming of doors as indignant
characters throw their hands up in the air and stomp off the stage at
the drop of a wrongly pronounced word or an errant comma, a great deal
of leering at double entendres, and flickering lights that come back
on to show a figure in front of the kitchen sink hastily zipping up.

The flaw in the ointment would getting an audience. We could give
Annie Oakleys to the sci.lang group, but no one in that group ever
*gets* anything. I can't imagine a tougher room for a light farce
than a crowd of Peter Daniels' ilk.

Accents are funny things.

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Tony Cooper
Guest
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 02:34:32 GMT, Tony Cooper
<tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:

Meant to post this to both groups.


Quote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:41:29 GMT, Gary Eickmeier
geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween" and the
other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me nuts.

Laura Spira seems to enjoy reading about odd insights into the lives
and personalities of the posters here like who wears nightshirts and
who has an aunt with a goiter, but I find it much more interesting to
see what drives other posters nuts.

I think we have the potential here for one of those plays like "Noises
Off" where the setting is an all-aue boink and various characters
react to their peeves and are exposed for their eccentricities.

It would be an ensemble farce with much slamming of doors as indignant
characters throw their hands up in the air and stomp off the stage at
the drop of a wrongly pronounced word or an errant comma, a great deal
of leering at double entendres, and flickering lights that come back
on to show a figure in front of the kitchen sink hastily zipping up.

The flaw in the ointment would getting an audience. We could give
Annie Oakleys to the sci.lang group, but no one in that group ever
*gets* anything. I can't imagine a tougher room for a light farce
than a crowd of Peter Daniels' ilk.

--


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
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Tony Cooper
Guest
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 01:41:29 GMT, Gary Eickmeier
<geickmei@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

Quote:
Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween" and the
other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me nuts.

Laura Spira seems to enjoy reading about odd insights into the lives

and personalities of the posters here like who wears nightshirts and
who has an aunt with a goiter, but I find it much more interesting to
see what drives other posters nuts.

I think we have the potential here for one of those plays like "Noises
Off" where the setting is an all-aue boink and various characters
react to their peeves and are exposed for their eccentricities.

It would be an ensemble farce with much slamming of doors as indignant
characters throw their hands up in the air and stomp off the stage at
the drop of a wrongly pronounced word or an errant comma, a great deal
of leering at double entendres, and flickering lights that come back
on to show a figure in front of the kitchen sink hastily zipping up.

The flaw in the ointment would getting an audience. We could give
Annie Oakleys to the sci.lang group, but no one in that group ever
*gets* anything. I can't imagine a tougher room for a light farce
than a crowd of Peter Daniels' ilk.


--


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
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John Dean
Guest
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Quote:
Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween" and
the other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me nuts.

Gary Eickmeier

Is that "correctly" as in "same way as me"?
BTW, you should *never* listen to the Queen - she says helloween.
--
John Dean
Oxford
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Will
Guest
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
John Dean wrote:
Quote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween" and
the other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me nuts.

Gary Eickmeier

Is that "correctly" as in "same way as me"?
BTW, you should *never* listen to the Queen - she says helloween.

I deduce from this that the word "hello", pronounced phonetically, is
deprecated in some quarter or other. I'd better start saying "Hi!"
instead.

And what about those poor unfortunates who say hulloween?

Will.
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Adrian Bailey
Guest
Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
"Will" <billrigby@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130492358.911415.125680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Quote:

John Dean wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween" and
the other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me nuts.

Gary Eickmeier

Is that "correctly" as in "same way as me"?
BTW, you should *never* listen to the Queen - she says helloween.

I deduce from this that the word "hello", pronounced phonetically, is
deprecated in some quarter or other.

You need to improve your deductive skills.

Adrian
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John Dean
Guest
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
Will wrote:
Quote:
John Dean wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween" and
the other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me nuts.

Gary Eickmeier

Is that "correctly" as in "same way as me"?
BTW, you should *never* listen to the Queen - she says helloween.

I deduce from this that the word "hello", pronounced phonetically, is
deprecated in some quarter or other. I'd better start saying "Hi!"
instead.

Don't think so. Just that extreme RP uses that 'e' sound' where most
would use 'a'.
Quote:

And what about those poor unfortunates who say hulloween?


From hulloween, helloween and halifaxoween may the Good Lord deliver us.
--
John Dean
Oxford
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Gary Eickmeier
Guest
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
John Dean wrote:
Quote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween" and
the other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me nuts.

Gary Eickmeier


Is that "correctly" as in "same way as me"?
BTW, you should *never* listen to the Queen - she says helloween.

See how that works? She probably thinks the root is "hello" whereas
others think it is "hollow." All this must occur without actually
reading the word and sounding it out. All Hallows Eve.

Or, it could be just me.

Gary Eickmeier
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John Dean
Guest
Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
Quote:
John Dean wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween" and
the other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me nuts.


Is that "correctly" as in "same way as me"?
BTW, you should *never* listen to the Queen - she says helloween.

See how that works? She probably thinks the root is "hello" whereas
others think it is "hollow." All this must occur without actually
reading the word and sounding it out. All Hallows Eve.

Or, it could be just me.



Or it could be All Hallow Even as OED suggests. Otherwise, wouldn't the
contraction be Hallowse'e?
--
John Dean
Oxford
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:23 am    Post subject: Re: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
John Dean wrote:
Quote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
John Dean wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween" and
the other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me nuts.


Is that "correctly" as in "same way as me"?
BTW, you should *never* listen to the Queen - she says helloween.

See how that works? She probably thinks the root is "hello" whereas
others think it is "hollow." All this must occur without actually
reading the word and sounding it out. All Hallows Eve.

Or, it could be just me.



Or it could be All Hallow Even as OED suggests. Otherwise, wouldn't the
contraction be Hallowse'e?
--
John Dean
Oxford


Quote:
From *The Century Dictionary* ( www.century-dictionary.com ). I've used
a capital "A" to represent an "a" with a macron:



[quote]

*Hallowe'en, Hallow-eve* [...]
[Also written _Halloween ;_ short for _Allhallow-
e'en,_ etc., _All-hallows' even :_ see _All-hallows,
All-hallown, All-hallon,_ etc. Cf. _Hallowmas._]
The form _Hallow-even_ is rare.

[end quote]


[quote]

*Hallowmas, Hallowmass* [...]
[Short for _All-hallows' mass,_ AS. _ealra hAlgena
mæsse-dæg,_ all saints' mass-day.

[end quote]


[quote]

*All-hallows, All-hallow* [...]
[Prop. _All-hallows,_ pl., but in comp. _All-hallow_
(sc. _day, eve, mass, summer, tide); in early mod. E.
and dial. also _All-hallown, -hallon, -hallan, -hol-
lon, -hollan, -holland,_ etc.; < ME. _al halowes,_ ear-
lier _al holowen,_ < AS. _ealle hAlgan,_ all hallows,
i. e., all saints (see _all_ and _hallow_1, _n._), usually
in gen. pl. _ealra hAlgena,_ ME _alre_ (or _alle_) ha-
lowene, halewune,_ etc., (day, tide, feast, etc.) of
all hallows. The term. _-n,_ corruptly _-nd,_ thus
represents the AS. pl. suffix _-an,_ and in comp.
the gen. pl. _-ena,_ the latter, ME. _-ene,_ being
appar. merged in _e'en_ in _Allhallowe'en,_ q. v.]

[end quote]


--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
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John Dean
Guest
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 4:42 am    Post subject: Re: Here We Go Again with Holloween Reply with quote
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
Quote:
John Dean wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:
John Dean wrote:
Gary Eickmeier wrote:

Half the people (including broadcast announcers) say "Holloween"
and the other half say it correctly as "Halloween." Drives me
nuts.


Is that "correctly" as in "same way as me"?
BTW, you should *never* listen to the Queen - she says helloween.

See how that works? She probably thinks the root is "hello" whereas
others think it is "hollow." All this must occur without actually
reading the word and sounding it out. All Hallows Eve.

Or, it could be just me.



Or it could be All Hallow Even as OED suggests. Otherwise, wouldn't
the contraction be Hallowse'e?
--


From *The Century Dictionary* ( www.century-dictionary.com ). I've
used
a capital "A" to represent an "a" with a macron:

Decent of you. From OED (entry for Hallow-ee'n)

[Shortened from All-Hallow-Even: see All-Hallow 4.]

--
John Dean
Oxford
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