| Author |
Message |
cdwl
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:34 pm
Post subject: American English Phonetics (Phonics?) rules |
|
|
Hi,
Would someone recommend an online resource, preferably free, or a
(text)book that describes the phonetics rules of American English. To
clarify, I'm looking for a list of rules that, for example, define that
one reads book as "būk", example as "ig'zampul" and so forth.
I've heard of "Hooked-on-Phonics" and my impression was that it's
targeted for children applying games, songs, etc. to help the children
learn. I'm looking for something more "dry", something like a textbook.
Thanks in advance
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: American English Phonetics (Phonics?) rules |
|
|
cdwl wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
Would someone recommend an online resource, preferably free, or a
(text)book that describes the phonetics rules of American English.
To
clarify, I'm looking for a list of rules that, for example, define
that one reads book as "būk", example as "ig'zampul" and so forth.
I've heard of "Hooked-on-Phonics" and my impression was that it's
targeted for children applying games, songs, etc. to help the
children
learn. I'm looking for something more "dry", something like a
textbook.
Thanks in advance
|
I can't speak for American E, but aren't you asking the impossible?
Aren't we always saying here that English has only a weak set of
rules linking spelling and pronunciation? At a guess, I'd say that
any linguistics-based textbook on the subject would be dry indeed,
perhaps dauntingly lengthy, and very likely too complicated to be
really useful.
I wonder if a dictionary intended for foreign learners would be the
most likely source of a simplified system. You could have a prowl
round the 'net using search terms such as "advanced learners". Maybe
switch to one of the foreign Googles ending in .fr, .de, etc.
Otherwise, I'd say your best bet actually _would_ be books aimed at
teaching children to read. Perhaps somebody could recommend something
like a teacher's handbook, which may be helpful.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Don Phillipson
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:01 pm
Post subject: Re: American English Phonetics (Phonics?) rules |
|
|
"cdwl" <nospam@nospam.nospam> wrote in message
news:joydnSj_da9OMNHeRVn-rQ@speakeasy.net...
| Quote: | Would someone recommend an online resource, preferably free, or a
(text)book that describes the phonetics rules of American English. To
clarify, I'm looking for a list of rules that, for example, define that
one reads book as "būk", example as "ig'zampul" and so forth.
|
You may be approaching language the wrong way round. There
are no a priori rules how American English ought to be spoken.
In actual use we hear pronunciations that tell us ABC is American
and DEF is English and someone else is Australian: but no one
nowadays treats those patterns as phonetic rules.
| Quote: | I've heard of "Hooked-on-Phonics" and my impression was that it's
targeted for children applying games, songs, etc. to help the children
learn. I'm looking for something more "dry", something like a textbook.
|
American schools changed approx. 1965-1975 their methods of teaching
reading and writing. Phonics is the general name for the method used
1865-1965 (which now seems a better teaching method than the
fashions of the late 20th century.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cdwl
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:18 pm
Post subject: Re: American English Phonetics (Phonics?) rules |
|
|
Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | I can't speak for American E, but aren't you asking the impossible?
|
Hope not. :)
| Quote: | Aren't we always saying here that English has only a weak set of
rules linking spelling and pronunciation?
|
The set may be weak but still some core rules have to be present. That's
what I'm looking for.
| Quote: | Otherwise, I'd say your best bet actually _would_ be books aimed at
teaching children to read. Perhaps somebody could recommend something
like a teacher's handbook, which may be helpful.
|
Maybe. Any titles you would recommend?
Thanks in advance |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:11 pm
Post subject: Re: American English Phonetics (Phonics?) rules |
|
|
cdwl wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle wrote:
I can't speak for American E, but aren't you asking the
impossible?
Hope not. :)
Aren't we always saying here that English has only a weak set of
rules linking spelling and pronunciation?
The set may be weak but still some core rules have to be present.
That's what I'm looking for.
|
I may be being obtuse here, but I assume you already know how to
pronounce English -- your written language shows you're a native
speaker or bilingual. That would mean that you already know the core
rules; so you just want to find somewhere they're listed?
| Quote: |
Otherwise, I'd say your best bet actually _would_ be books aimed
at
teaching children to read. Perhaps somebody could recommend
something
like a teacher's handbook, which may be helpful.
Maybe. Any titles you would recommend?
|
Afraid not: there were some books on pronunciation about when I was
an EFL teacher, but I can't remember what they were -- I didn't
bother with them. Some of our up-to-date ELT may come on line this
evening, though. I don't know if any of our other teachers are
primary-education specialists.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cdwl
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:24 pm
Post subject: Re: American English Phonetics (Phonics?) rules |
|
|
Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | I may be being obtuse here, but I assume you already know how to
pronounce English -- your written language shows you're a native
speaker or bilingual. That would mean that you already know the core
rules; so you just want to find somewhere they're listed?
|
Here's the story. I studied English in school as ESL, so I do know the
core rules, mostly. There are two problems though:
1) I graduated school long time ago so I don't remember everything I
studied.
2) I studied British English (which is not a problem by itself but when
you live in the US AND you have your own native language accent AND you
studied British version of English - things may get tricky  ).
In other words, I'm looking for AE pronunciation/phonetic rules to
refresh my memory using American version of the rules.
| Quote: | Some of our up-to-date ELT may come on line this
evening, though. I don't know if any of our other teachers are
primary-education specialists.
|
I'd interested to take a look, if possible. Thanks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:49 pm
Post subject: Re: American English Phonetics (Phonics?) rules |
|
|
cdwl wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | Here's the story. I studied English in school as ESL, so I do know
the
core rules, mostly. There are two problems though:
1) I graduated school long time ago so I don't remember everything
I
studied.
2) I studied British English (which is not a problem by itself but
when you live in the US AND you have your own native language
accent
AND you studied British version of English - things may get tricky
).
In other words, I'm looking for AE pronunciation/phonetic rules to
refresh my memory using American version of the rules.
|
In that case, I wouldn't consider using any printed source. All you
have to do is see some American films and TV, and talk to people. If
you aren't in the US yet, then why not listen to Voice of America for
a few days?
At least one of the American dictionaries on line has sound files for
words you want to check. See:
http://www.m-w.com/
[...]
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cdwl
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:09 am
Post subject: Re: American English Phonetics (Phonics?) rules |
|
|
Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | In that case, I wouldn't consider using any printed source. All you
have to do is see some American films and TV, and talk to people. If
you aren't in the US yet, then why not listen to Voice of America for
a few days?
|
That will not help much, at least in my experience. This is the same, I
think, as if someone would give you a solution to a problem instead of
explaining how you can solve the problem yourself (i.e. by *knowing* and
applying the rules).
Thanks |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:46 am
Post subject: Re: American English Phonetics (Phonics?) rules |
|
|
cdwl wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle wrote:
In that case, I wouldn't consider using any printed source. All
you
have to do is see some American films and TV, and talk to people.
If
you aren't in the US yet, then why not listen to Voice of America
for
a few days?
That will not help much, at least in my experience. This is the
same,
I think, as if someone would give you a solution to a problem
instead
of explaining how you can solve the problem yourself (i.e. by
*knowing* and applying the rules).
Thanks
|
In that case I misunderstood your problem. I thought you wanted to be
able to understand American speech better. You mean you want to
change your own? Even if that's necessary -- and I suspect it
isn't -- you can't do it by learning rules. You do it in exactly the
same way: by hearing and by speaking.
Most Americans pronounce the letter "r" in any position (as do very
many British people, of course); almost all say something like
British "ah" for the short "o"; almost all use a "@" in some of the
unstressed syllables where most Brits have "I"; there's a strong
tendency to use a "flap" -- a sort of "d" sound -- for "t" between
vowels. I think those are all the most striking differences, but I
suppose I must have missed a couple. I promise you'll pick up the
local sounds almost unconsciously when you get there: stop worrying.
--
Mike. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Numeromania
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:47 am
Post subject: Re: American English Phonetics (Phonics?) rules |
|
|
cdwl wrote:
| Quote: |
2) I studied British English (which is not a problem by itself but when
you live in the US AND you have your own native language accent AND you
studied British version of English - things may get tricky ).
|
See if this is what you're looking for:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0764173693/qid=1129160537/ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Ross
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: American English Phonetics (Phonics?) rules |
|
|
| Quote: | Would someone recommend an online resource, preferably free, or a
(text)book that describes the phonetics rules of American English. To
clarify, I'm looking for a list of rules that, for example, define that
one reads book as "būk", example as "ig'zampul" and so forth.
I think you might find that the Merriam Webster publication, "A Pronouncing |
Dictionary of American English" by Kenyon and Knott is just what you want.
It notes various regional pronunciations, with other pertinent info. It
uses the International Phonetic Alphabet, which it presents and explains
very well.
John
PS It's not free, alas -- but it's not all that expensive either. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Iain
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:01 pm
Post subject: Re: American English Phonetics (Phonics?) rules |
|
|
cdwl wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
Would someone recommend an online resource, preferably free, or a
(text)book that describes the phonetics rules of American English. To
clarify, I'm looking for a list of rules that, for example, define that
one reads book as "būk", example as "ig'zampul" and so forth.
I've heard of "Hooked-on-Phonics" and my impression was that it's
targeted for children applying games, songs, etc. to help the children
learn. I'm looking for something more "dry", something like a textbook.
|
There is no such rule -- you can say "ex-sample" if you want. Language
is about validity, not normality.
There are no phonics: modern English has no writing system. We write in
Neo-Early Modern English(Elizabethan with but with more Js, Vs, a few
less Es and Ks, and a few piecemeal alterations here and there, and a
few shifts in connotation, style, and the odd denotation), from a time
when people started getting spelling from spelling, not spelling from
sound, and text became more stand-alone, when morphemes now frequently
used were younger and perhaps more uniformly pronounced. Written
English tells us WHAT to say, not HOW to say it.
The world's most graphemic modern pronunciations are probably that of
Ireland and Scotland. Here in southern Scotland, "you" and "house" have
the same vowel, as do "book" and "pool", "GH" is often audible, "night"
is said medievally, "parent" sounds like American "pay rent",
"Saturday" is "Sate-uhr-die", and "girl" doesn't rhyme with "curl".
~Iain |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in