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masahiko
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:02 pm
Post subject: Do you know what that makes you? |
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Please forgive me to post the same question I asked yesterday again.
I am afraid that no one has noticed it which had the title "Help! ",
so I try again. I hope some of you will help me !
I would like to know what "Do you know what that makes you?" in the
following excerpt. Please help me how to analyze the sentence grammatically,
too. Please forgive my long quote.
I reached across her lap and picked up her sweater. Her Hello badge said,
Sabrina Walker. "Did you have your name changed, too?"
"No. I just called myself that for this convention. It makes it much easier
for mother to introduce me by the same name she has."
There was something wrong. I knew that anyone with my mathematical
abilities should be able to figure out what it was. I thought a minute and
it came to me, clear as the answer to one plus one."You mean to tell me that
you are going around announcing yourself as Sabrina Walker, daughter of
Lilly Walker?" She nodded. " And Walker was your mother's unmarried name?"
"Yes, when was a Lambda Gamma at Michigan, she was known as Lilly
Walker."
"That means that you are saying that you are your mother's daughter, and
your mother is using her unmarried name. Do you know what that makes you?
"
.. |
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Do you know what that makes you? |
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On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:02:26 +0900, "masahiko" <kirikojima@m5.dion.ne.j> wrote:
| Quote: | Please forgive me to post the same question I asked yesterday again.
I am afraid that no one has noticed it which had the title "Help! ",
so I try again. I hope some of you will help me !
I would like to know what "Do you know what that makes you?" in the
following excerpt. Please help me how to analyze the sentence grammatically,
too. Please forgive my long quote.
I reached across her lap and picked up her sweater. Her Hello badge said,
Sabrina Walker. "Did you have your name changed, too?"
"No. I just called myself that for this convention. It makes it much easier
for mother to introduce me by the same name she has."
There was something wrong. I knew that anyone with my mathematical
abilities should be able to figure out what it was. I thought a minute and
it came to me, clear as the answer to one plus one."You mean to tell me that
you are going around announcing yourself as Sabrina Walker, daughter of
Lilly Walker?" She nodded. " And Walker was your mother's unmarried name?"
"Yes, when was a Lambda Gamma at Michigan, she was known as Lilly
Walker."
"That means that you are saying that you are your mother's daughter, and
your mother is using her unmarried name. Do you know what that makes you?
"
|
Because she has the same name as her mother had before she [her mother] was
married, then that suggests that she is a bastard.
--
Jim
"a single species has come to dominate ...
reproducing at bacterial levels, almost as an
infectious plague envelops its host"
http://tinyurl.com/c88xs |
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masahiko
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Do you know what that makes you? |
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Thank you for your prompt reply. I understand how the narrator thinks about
the girl called Sabrina, but what is not clear to me is the sentence " do
you know what that makes you?" literally means.
"Jim Lawton" <ucan@use.your.initiative> wrote in message
news:jq3vd1p5j2v1ts7drln9k4o4l4fbujc5f6@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:02:26 +0900, "masahiko" <kirikojima@m5.dion.ne.j
wrote:
Please forgive me to post the same question I asked yesterday again.
I am afraid that no one has noticed it which had the title "Help! ",I
so I try again. I hope some of you will help me !
I would like to know what "Do you know what that makes you?" in the
following excerpt. Please help me how to analyze the sentence
grammatically,
too. Please forgive my long quote.
I reached across her lap and picked up her sweater. Her Hello badge
said,
Sabrina Walker. "Did you have your name changed, too?"
"No. I just called myself that for this convention. It makes it much
easier
for mother to introduce me by the same name she has."
There was something wrong. I knew that anyone with my mathematical
abilities should be able to figure out what it was. I thought a minute and
it came to me, clear as the answer to one plus one."You mean to tell me
that
you are going around announcing yourself as Sabrina Walker, daughter of
Lilly Walker?" She nodded. " And Walker was your mother's unmarried name?"
"Yes, when was a Lambda Gamma at Michigan, she was known as Lilly
Walker."
"That means that you are saying that you are your mother's daughter, and
your mother is using her unmarried name. Do you know what that makes you?
"
Because she has the same name as her mother had before she [her mother]
was
married, then that suggests that she is a bastard.
--
Jim
"a single species has come to dominate ...
reproducing at bacterial levels, almost as an
infectious plague envelops its host"
http://tinyurl.com/c88xs |
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Troy Steadman
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Do you know what that makes you? |
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masahiko wrote:
| Quote: | Thank you for your prompt reply. I understand how the narrator thinks about
the girl called Sabrina, but what is not clear to me is the sentence " do
you know what that makes you?" literally means.
|
Do you know... = are you aware, do you understand
....what that...[using your mother's unmarried name]
....makes you? = says about you, suggests to anyone hearing about it |
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masahiko
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Do you know what that makes you? |
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So, do you mean that there is a way of saying " What does it make you?"
What does "make " mean in this usage?
"Troy Steadman" <troysteadman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1121954124.882698.15450@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | masahiko wrote:
Thank you for your prompt reply. I understand how the narrator thinks
about
the girl called Sabrina, but what is not clear to me is the sentence " do
you know what that makes you?" literally means.
Do you know... = are you aware, do you understand
...what that...[using your mother's unmarried name]
...makes you? = says about you, suggests to anyone hearing about it
|
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TsuiDF
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Do you know what that makes you? |
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masahiko wrote:
| Quote: | So, do you mean that there is a way of saying " What does it make you?"
What does "make " mean in this usage?
|
In this case 'make' means something like 'what are you as a result [of
what has just been described]?'
It's casual rather than formal (but then, to judge by the things you're
reading, you know that).
I would analogise it to a child learning arithmetic: 'one plus one
makes two', and so on, where 'make' means 'results in...' or 'gives as
a result'.
The question 'what does that make you?' I think would usually have a
negative connotation. The context would be 'X happened, Y happened,
and that makes you -- an idiot/a bastard/a twit/something unhappy or
unpleasant'. Of course it could be used jocularly too, as is common in
BrE usage (mutual insult as a form of pleasantry), but the gist of it
is an invitation to follow through logic that will lead to the person
on the receiving end of the question admitting to being silly or
unfortunate in some sense.
Hope this helps.
cheers,
Stephanie in Brussels |
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Troy Steadman
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Do you know what that makes you? |
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masahiko wrote:
| Quote: | "Troy Steadman" <troysteadman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1121954124.882698.15450@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
masahiko wrote:
Thank you for your prompt reply. I understand how the narrator thinks
about
the girl called Sabrina, but what is not clear to me is the sentence " do
you know what that makes you?" literally means.
Do you know... = are you aware, do you understand
...what that...[using your mother's unmarried name]
...makes you? = says about you, suggests to anyone hearing about it
So, do you mean that there is a way of saying " What does it make you?"
What does "make " mean in this usage?
|
"What does it make you?" is not uncommon with the accent heavily on the
last word.
It means: "What does that say about you. Have a good look at yourself
and think about what you have become".
If you have changed or become something else you have (in a sense) been
"made again" or "remade". |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:52 pm
Post subject: Re: "bastardess", "bastardo", "bastarda" [was: Re: Do you k |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: | I know "bastard" is generally recognized to be a
gender-neutral word, but it just doesn't seem right to me to
call a female a bastard.
|
When I was a kid, we learned that "bastard" was the male form of "bitch",
much like "warlock" was the male form of "witch" (or "people" the plural
of "person"). I didn't learn the "nonmarital child" meaning of 'bastard'
until many years after learning the common usage of 'bastard'. |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:17 am
Post subject: "bastardess", "bastardo", "bastarda" [was: Re: Do you know |
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On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:06:54 GMT, Jim Lawton
<ucan@use.your.initiative> said:
[...]
| Quote: | Because she has the same name as her mother had before
she [her mother] was married, then that suggests that she
is a bastard.
|
I know "bastard" is generally recognized to be a
gender-neutral word, but it just doesn't seem right to me to
call a female a bastard.
Googling finds some support for my feeling, including about
560 hits on "bastardess".
However, so far as I've been able to find, no English
dictionary -- including the _Oxford English Dictionary_ --
has "bastardess" or any other female derivative of
"bastard".
A Spanish dictionary has "bastardo" and "bastarda". Are
those words normally used in Spanish to distinguish male and
female love children? |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:30 am
Post subject: Re: "bastardess", "bastardo", "bastarda" [was: Re: Do you k |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:52:26 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net
wrote:
Bob Cunningham wrote:
I know "bastard" is generally recognized to be a
gender-neutral word, but it just doesn't seem right to me to
call a female a bastard.
When I was a kid, we learned that "bastard" was the male form of "bitch",
much like "warlock" was the male form of "witch" (or "people" the plural
of "person"). I didn't learn the "nonmarital child" meaning of 'bastard'
until many years after learning the common usage of 'bastard'.
Has the word "illegitimate" never come to your vocabulary?
|
Of course it has -- it's the usual adjective used to describe a child
born out of wedlock. I sometimes humorously use "nonmarital child", which
IIRC is the statutory euphemism employed in New York State (ERKCC). |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:26 am
Post subject: Re: "bastardess", "bastardo", "bastarda" [was: Re: Do you k |
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On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:52:26 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Bob Cunningham wrote:
I know "bastard" is generally recognized to be a
gender-neutral word, but it just doesn't seem right to me to
call a female a bastard.
When I was a kid, we learned that "bastard" was the male form of "bitch",
much like "warlock" was the male form of "witch" (or "people" the plural
of "person"). I didn't learn the "nonmarital child" meaning of 'bastard'
until many years after learning the common usage of 'bastard'.
|
Has the word "illegitimate" never come to your vocabulary?
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando FL |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:42 am
Post subject: Re: Do you know what that makes you? |
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"masahiko" <kirikojima@m5.dion.ne.j> writes:
| Quote: | "Troy Steadman" <troysteadman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1121954124.882698.15450@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
masahiko wrote:
Thank you for your prompt reply. I understand how the narrator
thinks about
the girl called Sabrina, but what is not clear to me is the sentence " do
you know what that makes you?" literally means.
Do you know... = are you aware, do you understand
...what that...[using your mother's unmarried name]
...makes you? = says about you, suggests to anyone hearing about it
So, do you mean that there is a way of saying " What does it make
you?" What does "make " mean in this usage?
|
The closest gloss would be "imply about". In a declarative context,
Howard is Harry's son, and I'm Howard's son, which makes me Harry's
grandson.
Or, in a more humorous context,
Dark Helmet: Before you die there is something you should know
about us, Lone Star.
Lone Star: What?
Dark Helmet: I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's former
roommate.
Lone Star: What's that make us?
Dark Helmet: Absolutely nothing!
"What does that make you?" or "You know what that makes you", said
sarcastically, is often used to point out that a logical conclusion
that something unkind somebody has said about somebody else actually
reflects poorly on them, as when criticizing the talent of somebody
they've just lost to.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The skinny models whose main job is
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |to display clothes aren't hired for
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |their sex appeal. They're hired
|for their resemblance to a
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |coat-hanger.
(650)857-7572 | Peter Moylan
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:29 pm
Post subject: Re: "bastardess", "bastardo", "bastarda" [was: Re: Do you k |
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On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:17:46 GMT, Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:06:54 GMT, Jim Lawton
ucan@use.your.initiative> said:
[...]
Because she has the same name as her mother had before
she [her mother] was married, then that suggests that she
is a bastard.
I know "bastard" is generally recognized to be a
gender-neutral word, but it just doesn't seem right to me to
call a female a bastard.
Googling finds some support for my feeling, including about
560 hits on "bastardess".
|
But "she was a b." and "she is a b." both get in excess of 200 hits. As you say
"bastard" is gender neutral, but my Collins, while having it so, specifies that
/as a term of abuse/ it refers to men only.
snip
--
Jim
"a single species has come to dominate ...
reproducing at bacterial levels, almost as an
infectious plague envelops its host"
http://tinyurl.com/c88xs |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: "bastardess", "bastardo", "bastarda" [was: Re: Do you k |
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On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:26:26 GMT, Tony Cooper
<tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:52:26 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net
wrote:
Bob Cunningham wrote:
I know "bastard" is generally recognized to be a
gender-neutral word, but it just doesn't seem right to me to
call a female a bastard.
When I was a kid, we learned that "bastard" was the male form of "bitch",
much like "warlock" was the male form of "witch" (or "people" the plural
of "person"). I didn't learn the "nonmarital child" meaning of 'bastard'
until many years after learning the common usage of 'bastard'.
Has the word "illegitimate" never come to your vocabulary?
|
Does TCE contain the word "synonym"? If it does, why would a TCE
speaker feel the need to point out the existence of one?
--
Charles Riggs |
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Matthew Huntbach
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:12 pm
Post subject: Re: "bastardess", "bastardo", "bastarda" [was: Re: Do you k |
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On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, Areff wrote:
| Quote: | Tony Cooper wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 19:52:26 +0000 (UTC), Areff <me@privacy.net
wrote:
When I was a kid, we learned that "bastard" was the male form of "bitch",
much like "warlock" was the male form of "witch" (or "people" the plural
of "person"). I didn't learn the "nonmarital child" meaning of 'bastard'
until many years after learning the common usage of 'bastard'.
Has the word "illegitimate" never come to your vocabulary?
Of course it has -- it's the usual adjective used to describe a child
born out of wedlock. I sometimes humorously use "nonmarital child", which
IIRC is the statutory euphemism employed in New York State (ERKCC).
|
Is for any need for such an adjective at all? In the part of London
where I live only a minority of children are born to parents who are
a married couple, and while this is particularly high, it's no longer
considered anything unusual or shameful anywhere else I know in the UK
for a child to be born out of wedlock. It seems to be fairly standard
practice to get married after having children, in a white dress with
the daughters as bridesmaids. This would have been regarded as shocking
probably just twenty years ago.
Matthew Huntbach |
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