| Author |
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Tim Singer
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 3:05 am
Post subject: Please Check This Sentence |
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I was just wondering if people here considered this sentence OK:
"The people were already sick, but they got sicker particularly after
and because they were forced to watch the brutal massacre."
Thanks for your opinions. |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 3:05 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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Tim Singer <singer12@comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I was just wondering if people here considered this sentence OK:
"The people were already sick, but they got sicker particularly after
and because they were forced to watch the brutal massacre."
|
Nobody says "after and because". It's sounds really odd.
It would be enough to say "after".
They got sicker after they watched the massacre.
They got sicker when they watched the massacre.
They got sicker because they watched the massacre.
Also, the "particularly" doesn't seem to be attached to anything. You
probably want a comma before it, but I'm not sure what you mean.
--
Best wishes -- Donna Richoux |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 3:05 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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"Tim Singer" <singer12@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:fujs81lp18c0s0dh9hfnieaqvglag13msh@4ax.com...
| Quote: | I was just wondering if people here considered this sentence OK:
"The people were already sick, but they got sicker particularly after
and because they were forced to watch the brutal massacre."
|
The problem is the two meanings of sick.
#1 = unwell, diseased etc.
#2 = nauseated, vomiting.
Case #2 may be brief and transient.
Vomiting can be a symptom of disease but no less
of good health (in "motion sickness.") By contrast,
disease is not a sign of vomiting.
As used in phrases:
were already sick suggests case #1;
got sicker also suggests case #1;
but watching bloodshed suggests case #2.
Can you rephrase for clarity?
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Wavy G
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 3:05 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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Question for my friends:
How about sentences that end with prepositions? I know it is usually
considered incorrect, as in sentences like, "Where do you live at?"
Obviously, the "at" is superfluous, but what about a sentence like this:
"I left earlier, but I came back." Is that incorrect, to end the
sentence with "back"? If not, why? And if so, how else would you word
it? Please help me. I love you.
Wavy G |
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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 3:05 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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trio@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote in
news:1gww2t4.k53hp61ol310yN%trio@euronet.nl:
| Quote: | Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> wrote:
Donna Richoux writes:
You might notice this means you never *can* end a sentence with a
preposition. If you can end a sentence with it, it's not serving as
a preposition, it's something else.
I find this claim surprising; I'm sure I've never seen it before.
Oh, all right, all right, you guys. I should have remembered to waffle
sufficiently. I was trying to give Wavy G an instant lesson in why
"back" in "I came back" is not a preposition, and I apparently got
carried away.
Instead of picking holes in my observation, how about you help the guy
with his question?
|
Not to pick holes in your observation, but:
1. all prepositions are adverbs;
2. it doesn't matter what a word functions as in a sentence, it never
moves out of its part of speech classification; therefore, for example,
a noun functioning as an adjective is still a noun.
As it happens, the part of speech called "adverb" is a garbage can: it
is the category into which we throw words that don't handily fit in any
of the other categories.
The answer to the question is that "come back" is a multi-word (I would
call it "phrasal", but others might call it "prepositional") verb that
means "return". "Back" functions as a *particle* attached to the verb
"come" and not as a preposition in a prepositional phrase. Even in "I
came back home", "back home" is not a prepositional phrase, unless we
have a sentence in non-standard English that means "I had an orgasm at
home". In the latter sentence, "at home" is a prepositional phrase, just
as "back home" is a prepositional phrase in the dialect sentence with
the same meaning.
Wavy G ought to simply forget about the nonsense of not ending sentences
with prepositions. *"Where do you live at?" is not standard English; the
"at" is not only superfluous, it's incorrect. It's different from, for
example, "What do you live in?" (eg, a house or an apartment or a
trailer [BrE: 'caravan']). In this sentence, "in" is most assuredly a
preposition that functions as a preposition in the separable
prepositional phrase "in what". In Miss Thistlebottom's English class,
of course, we would be expected to say "In what do you live?" despite
its awkwardness (or "considered awkwardness" these days).
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
'"History," Hegel said, "is a slaughterhouse."
And war is how the slaughter is carried out.'
Sydney H. Schanberg, _The Village Voice_,
May 17th, 2005 |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 3:20 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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Wavy G <imwavy@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Question for my friends:
How about sentences that end with prepositions? I know it is usually
considered incorrect, as in sentences like, "Where do you live at?"
Obviously, the "at" is superfluous, but what about a sentence like this:
"I left earlier, but I came back." Is that incorrect, to end the
sentence with "back"? If not, why? And if so, how else would you word
it? Please help me. I love you.
That's not a preposition. That's an adverb. A preposition will always be |
in a prepositional phrase, like:
in a bottle
up a tree
over the mountain
You might notice this means you never *can* end a sentence with a
preposition. If you can end a sentence with it, it's not serving as a
preposition, it's something else.
Just as the same word can serve as a noun or a verb or an adjective, a
single word can be a preposition at times or an adverb at other times.
The "up" in "Look up!" is not the same part of speech as "The squirrel
ran up a tree." As it happens, you cannot, in English, say "The squirrel
ran a tree up."
You can find the FAQ entry by putting "preposition" into the Search Box
at the AUE Website:
http://alt-usage-english.org/
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 3:37 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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Daniel Damouth <damouth@san.rr.com> wrote in
news:Xns965CBB97B1F6Fdamouthsanrrcom@66.75.169.11:
| Quote: | CyberCypher <cybercypher@19--16-25-13-01-03.com> wrote in
news:Xns965D5B11B626ccaue@139.175.55.249:
Wavy G ought to simply forget about the nonsense of not ending
sentences with prepositions. *"Where do you live at?" is not
standard English; the "at" is not only superfluous, it's
incorrect.
Does the knowledge that large numbers of native speakers in North
America change your notion that "Where do you live at" is incorrect?
|
It might help me answer your question if you rewrite this as a complete
sentence with a meaning. Otherwise, all I can say is "Wha'?"
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
'"History," Hegel said, "is a slaughterhouse."
And war is how the slaughter is carried out.'
Sydney H. Schanberg, _The Village Voice_,
May 17th, 2005 |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 4:09 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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Wavy G wrote:
| Quote: | Question for my friends:
How about sentences that end with prepositions? I know it is
usually
considered incorrect, as in sentences like, "Where do you live at?"
Obviously, the "at" is superfluous, but what about a sentence like
this: "I left earlier, but I came back." Is that incorrect, to end
the sentence with "back"? If not, why? And if so, how else would
you word it? Please help me. I love you.
|
Nothing wrong with it, even if "back" were a preposition, but it's an
adverb. There is no such rule: only if avoid it if it doesn't sound
nice. Tell them I said so.
--
Mike. |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 4:37 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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Donna Richoux wrote:
[...]> You might notice this means you never *can* end a sentence
with a
| Quote: | preposition. If you can end a sentence with it, it's not serving as
a
preposition, it's something else.
[...] |
That's a claim I've got an answer to.
--
Mike. |
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Bill Bonde ('by a commodi
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 4:38 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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Donna Richoux wrote:
| Quote: |
Wavy G <imwavy@gmail.com> wrote:
Question for my friends:
How about sentences that end with prepositions? I know it is usually
considered incorrect, as in sentences like, "Where do you live at?"
Obviously, the "at" is superfluous, but what about a sentence like this:
"I left earlier, but I came back." Is that incorrect, to end the
sentence with "back"? If not, why? And if so, how else would you word
it? Please help me. I love you.
That's not a preposition. That's an adverb. A preposition will always be
in a prepositional phrase, like:
in a bottle
up a tree
over the mountain
You might notice this means you never *can* end a sentence with a
preposition. If you can end a sentence with it, it's not serving as a
preposition, it's something else.
Which rule book did you find that in? |
--
School Time
Husk of your mind bedecked with planks
Hand hewn by the well schooled shanks
To hold tight the juices from your soul
Before they're sucked clean out a hole
Like a black widow does its mate.
There's the bell, don't be late! |
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Carl Alex Friis Nielsen
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 5:04 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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Donna Richoux skrev i meddelelsen <1gwvv2c.t8lcui4aax7tN%trio@euronet.nl>...
| Quote: | The "up" in "Look up!" is not the same part of speech as "The squirrel
ran up a tree." As it happens, you cannot, in English, say "The squirrel
ran a tree up."
|
Why not ?
As I understand it it was just the squirrel doing something odd to the tree
somehow causing the tree to move upwards instead of it being the squirrel
which was moving upwards.
--------------------------------------
Carl Alex Friis Nielsen
Love Me - take me as I think I am |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 5:21 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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Carl Alex Friis Nielsen wrote:
| Quote: | Donna Richoux skrev i meddelelsen
1gwvv2c.t8lcui4aax7tN%trio@euronet.nl>...
The "up" in "Look up!" is not the same part of speech as "The
squirrel ran up a tree." As it happens, you cannot, in English, say
"The squirrel ran a tree up."
Why not ?
As I understand it it was just the squirrel doing something odd to
the tree somehow causing the tree to move upwards instead of it being
the squirrel which was moving upwards.
|
Yeah. My cat ran up a pair of curtains but my wife ran a pair of
curtains up.
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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Wavy G
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 5:23 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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Somewhere men are laughing, and little children shout...But there is no
joy in alt.usage.english--mighty "Mike Lyle" has struck out.
| Quote: | Wavy G wrote:
Question for my friends:
How about sentences that end with prepositions? I know it is
usually
considered incorrect, as in sentences like, "Where do you live at?"
Obviously, the "at" is superfluous, but what about a sentence like
this: "I left earlier, but I came back." Is that incorrect, to end
the sentence with "back"? If not, why? And if so, how else would
you word it? Please help me. I love you.
Nothing wrong with it, even if "back" were a preposition, but it's an
adverb. There is no such rule: only if avoid it if it doesn't sound
nice. Tell them I said so.
|
Come on, I'm being serious, Lyle. I want to be able to write good, and
I need help. |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 5:42 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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Donna Richoux writes:
| Quote: | You might notice this means you never *can* end a sentence with a
preposition. If you can end a sentence with it, it's not serving as a
preposition, it's something else.
|
I find this claim surprising; I'm sure I've never seen it before.
| Quote: | Just as the same word can serve as a noun or a verb or an adjective, a
single word can be a preposition at times or an adverb at other times.
|
True.
| Quote: | The "up" in "Look up!" is not the same part of speech as "The squirrel
ran up a tree."
|
True. But the "up" in "Which tree did the squirrel run up?" or in
"It was the same one the cat ran up" *is* a preposition -- what else?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Don't be evil."
msb@vex.net -- corporate policy, Google Inc. |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 6:05 am
Post subject: Re: Please Check This Sentence |
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Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Donna Richoux writes:
You might notice this means you never *can* end a sentence with a
preposition. If you can end a sentence with it, it's not serving as a
preposition, it's something else.
I find this claim surprising; I'm sure I've never seen it before.
|
Oh, all right, all right, you guys. I should have remembered to waffle
sufficiently. I was trying to give Wavy G an instant lesson in why
"back" in "I came back" is not a preposition, and I apparently got
carried away.
Instead of picking holes in my observation, how about you help the guy
with his question?
--
Mmm, waffles -- Donna Richoux |
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