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Bruno
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 11:04 pm
Post subject: bloke |
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| Is the word 'bloke' demeaning? |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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Bruno wrote:
| Quote: | Is the word 'bloke' demeaning?
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Not as far as Linz is concerned, at least, IWS. |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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K. Edgcombe wrote:
| Quote: | In article <n03781pjd7bp9fqen7panclq86mrlp54jm@4ax.com>,
Bruno <Bruno@Bergencounty.com> wrote:
Is the word 'bloke' demeaning?
Not in UK English (ask Linz). I don't know whether it exists in US English.
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It's used in dialogue in at least one Stephen Crane novel, and didn't
someone here say that it originated in AmE? But it's nonexistent in
present-day AmE, and is regarded as Brito-Australic. |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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Don Phillipson wrote:
| Quote: | "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3ehh25F34f73U1@individual.net...
Is the word 'bloke' demeaning?
Not a bit, in itself. Most British etc men will refer to themselves
and their friends as "blokes". But like other words, it can be used
in a derogatory tone.
1. Mike is right: in Britain this is normal for chap, fellow, etc.
2a. A few Americans think bloke is demeaning
2b. Most French Canadians think bloke is used
only as a deliberate insult (and none of my French
Canadian friends has ever remembered why.)
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3. In several Modern BrE dialects it seems that "bloke" is shifting
towards "blake" or "blike". |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 11:11 pm
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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Bruno wrote:
| Quote: | Is the word 'bloke' demeaning?
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Not a bit, in itself. Most British etc men will refer to themselves
and their friends as "blokes". But like other words, it can be used
in a derogatory tone.
--
Mike. |
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K. Edgcombe
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 11:11 pm
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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In article <n03781pjd7bp9fqen7panclq86mrlp54jm@4ax.com>,
Bruno <Bruno@Bergencounty.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Is the word 'bloke' demeaning?
|
Not in UK English (ask Linz). I don't know whether it exists in US English.
It's a bit informal; I wouldn't expect to find it in a Government report or a
scientific paper. If you refer to someone as "bloke-ish" that might be a bit
derogatory, but I think that's a very recent invention. "Bloke" has been
around for fifty years or more.
Katy |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 11:22 pm
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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K. Edgcombe wrote:
| Quote: | In article <n03781pjd7bp9fqen7panclq86mrlp54jm@4ax.com>,
Bruno <Bruno@Bergencounty.com> wrote:
Is the word 'bloke' demeaning?
Not in UK English (ask Linz). I don't know whether it exists in US
English.
It's a bit informal; I wouldn't expect to find it in a Government
report or a scientific paper. If you refer to someone as
"bloke-ish"
that might be a bit derogatory, but I think that's a very recent
invention. "Bloke" has been around for fifty years or more.
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OED1 gives 1851 (Mayhew). Partridge says before 1839, but gives
"blokey" as a derivative (familiar, not adjective) from a little
earlier.
--
Mike. |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3ehh25F34f73U1@individual.net...
| Quote: | Is the word 'bloke' demeaning?
Not a bit, in itself. Most British etc men will refer to themselves
and their friends as "blokes". But like other words, it can be used
in a derogatory tone.
|
1. Mike is right: in Britain this is normal for chap, fellow, etc.
2a. A few Americans think bloke is demeaning
2b. Most French Canadians think bloke is used
only as a deliberate insult (and none of my French
Canadian friends has ever remembered why.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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worldsender
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 12:41 am
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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"Bruno" <Bruno@Bergencounty.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:n03781pjd7bp9fqen7panclq86mrlp54jm@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Is the word 'bloke' demeaning?
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No, it's just the British equivalent of "guy". If I wanted to pay someone a
compliment I might say "He's a really good/nice bloke". |
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Django Cat
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 5:16 am
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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On Thu, 12 May 2005 17:04:00 GMT, Bruno <Bruno@Bergencounty.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Is the word 'bloke' demeaning?
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When the BBC started a new network, Radio 5, devoted to News and
especially Sport, it quickly became known as 'Radio Bloke'.
In other words, blokes are alright, if not always the sharpest tools
in the bag.
I'd be happy to be described as a good bloke.
Just don't get me started on 14 year olds in hifi shops calling me
'mate'.
DC me old china |
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Linz
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 10:04 pm
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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On Thu, 12 May 2005 17:04:00 GMT, Bruno <Bruno@Bergencounty.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Is the word 'bloke' demeaning?
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I don't think so, and neither does my husband OldBloke. Our son
YoungBloke might but he's not said anything about it yet.
--
The point of education is to correct ignorance. It cannot deal with stupidity.
(Mortimer Hebblethwaite, uk.misc) |
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Andrew Gwilliam
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 5:06 am
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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On Thu, 12 May 2005 18:22:27 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | K. Edgcombe wrote:
In article <n03781pjd7bp9fqen7panclq86mrlp54jm@4ax.com>,
Bruno <Bruno@Bergencounty.com> wrote:
Is the word 'bloke' demeaning?
Not in UK English (ask Linz). I don't know whether it exists in US
English.
It's a bit informal; I wouldn't expect to find it in a Government
report or a scientific paper. If you refer to someone as
"bloke-ish"
that might be a bit derogatory, but I think that's a very recent
invention. "Bloke" has been around for fifty years or more.
OED1 gives 1851 (Mayhew). Partridge says before 1839, but gives
"blokey" as a derivative (familiar, not adjective) from a little
earlier.
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I was going to hazard a guess that it was Cockney in origin, and probably
Victorian. Is that Mayhew as in "London Labour and the London Poor" (if
that's the book I'm thinking of)?
--
Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "silverhelm" |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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Andrew Gwilliam wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 12 May 2005 18:22:27 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote:
K. Edgcombe wrote:
In article <n03781pjd7bp9fqen7panclq86mrlp54jm@4ax.com>,
Bruno <Bruno@Bergencounty.com> wrote:
Is the word 'bloke' demeaning?
Not in UK English (ask Linz). I don't know whether it exists in
US
English.
It's a bit informal; I wouldn't expect to find it in a Government
report or a scientific paper. If you refer to someone as
"bloke-ish"
that might be a bit derogatory, but I think that's a very recent
invention. "Bloke" has been around for fifty years or more.
OED1 gives 1851 (Mayhew). Partridge says before 1839, but gives
"blokey" as a derivative (familiar, not adjective) from a little
earlier.
I was going to hazard a guess that it was Cockney in origin, and
probably Victorian. Is that Mayhew as in "London Labour and the
London Poor" (if that's the book I'm thinking of)?
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Yes, that Mayhew. Partridge can't pin down the origin.
--
Mike. |
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Andrew Gwilliam
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 12:26 pm
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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On Thu, 19 May 2005 16:01:43 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Andrew Gwilliam wrote:
I was going to hazard a guess that it was Cockney in origin, and
probably Victorian. Is that Mayhew as in "London Labour and the
London Poor" (if that's the book I'm thinking of)?
Yes, that Mayhew. Partridge can't pin down the origin.
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FWIW, my Macquarie has it as of "Shelta" origin. "Say, what?", thinks I,
leading me to this definition:
"a tinkers' jargon of Ireland and parts of Britain, based on deliberately
altered Gaelic"
I'm not terribly convinced by this derivation, but presumably someone has
done the research to back it up.
--
Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "silverhelm" |
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Don Aitken
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 5:50 pm
Post subject: Re: bloke |
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On Fri, 20 May 2005 07:26:09 +0100, Andrew Gwilliam
<bottomless_pit@southernskies.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 19 May 2005 16:01:43 +0100, Mike Lyle wrote:
Andrew Gwilliam wrote:
I was going to hazard a guess that it was Cockney in origin, and
probably Victorian. Is that Mayhew as in "London Labour and the
London Poor" (if that's the book I'm thinking of)?
Yes, that Mayhew. Partridge can't pin down the origin.
FWIW, my Macquarie has it as of "Shelta" origin. "Say, what?", thinks I,
leading me to this definition:
"a tinkers' jargon of Ireland and parts of Britain, based on deliberately
altered Gaelic"
I'm not terribly convinced by this derivation, but presumably someone has
done the research to back it up.
|
Shelta is reasonably well documented. There is half a chapter on it in
Trudgill's "Language in the British Isles"., and a fair amount online.
The word list at
http://oldwelshbooks.net/macalisterras1937/sheltab.html doesn't
include anything resembling "bloke", though.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the From: address is not read.
To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" |
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