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T. Z.
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:37 pm
Post subject: UK legal jargon? -- "to plead guilty with full credit" |
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This is from a document intended for the general UK
public.
"two firms pleaded guilty with full credit"
<-- does this mean that the firms pleaded guilty
unconditionally (whatever that might mean)?
"Safety legislation is being more rigourously enforced
and fines are increasing. For example, at courts in
XXX (places) during one month in 2003, two firms who
pleaded guilty with full credit in respect@of
non-fatal accidents were fined 80,000 pounds and
100,000 pounds respectively. HSE aims to promote
compliance with safety law and the trend seems to be
moving towards those firms who find themselves in
breach paying an ever-heavier price."
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Tom
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:38 pm
Post subject: Re: UK legal jargon? -- "to plead guilty with full credit" |
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T. Z. wrote...
| Quote: |
This is from a document intended for the general UK
public.
"two firms pleaded guilty with full credit"
-- does this mean that the firms pleaded guilty
unconditionally (whatever that might mean)?
"Safety legislation is being more rigourously enforced
and fines are increasing. For example, at courts in
XXX (places) during one month in 2003, two firms who
pleaded guilty with full credit in respect@of
non-fatal accidents were fined 80,000 pounds and
100,000 pounds respectively. HSE aims to promote
compliance with safety law and the trend seems to be
moving towards those firms who find themselves in
breach paying an ever-heavier price."
|
Full credit is often the result of "a timely guilty plea and co-operation with
the investigation". It's not part of the plea, but the judgment.
I think this is the relevant law, although it doesn't talk about "credit" it
does explain the principle :-
Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00006--r.htm#152
and there's plenty on Google:
"The extent of the sentencing discount allowed will vary according to the timing
and circumstances of the plea. A defendant who pleads guilty before venue is
decided at the magistrates court will normally be given full credit for so
doing, which may amount to a discount of one third, or more. Full credit will
not, however, be given in a case where the defendant, in effect, has little
choice but to plead guilty."
"The Home Secretary's point about defendants playing the system to
get to the Crown court may have been a good one some years ago, but it is now
grossly exaggerated as it hardly happens at all--not least because of the
introduction of plea-before-venue, coupled with full credit for early guilty pleas."
"the judge had said that if he pleaded guilty he would get full credit, and the
sentence would be below four years."
"The court gave him full credit for pleading guilty and imposed a 220 fine." |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:20 pm
Post subject: Re: UK legal jargon? -- "to plead guilty with full credit" |
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On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:37:07 -0700 (PDT), "T. Z."
<Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
| Quote: |
This is from a document intended for the general UK
public.
"two firms pleaded guilty with full credit"
-- does this mean that the firms pleaded guilty
unconditionally (whatever that might mean)?
"Safety legislation is being more rigourously enforced
and fines are increasing. For example, at courts in
XXX (places) during one month in 2003, two firms who
pleaded guilty with full credit in respect?@of
non-fatal accidents were fined 80,000 pounds and
100,000 pounds respectively. HSE aims to promote
compliance with safety law and the trend seems to be
moving towards those firms who find themselves in
breach paying an ever-heavier price."
I am not a lawyer, but I think this refers to the practice of reducing the |
fine by a percentage if the accused person pleads guilty. The accused is
"given credit" for this plea. Presumably "full credit" means the maximum
permitted reduction of the fine.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e)
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Martin Ambuhl
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:45 pm
Post subject: Re: UK legal jargon? -- "to plead guilty with full credit" |
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Peter Duncanson wrote:
| Quote: | I am not a lawyer, but I think this refers to the practice of reducing the
fine by a percentage if the accused person pleads guilty. The accused is
"given credit" for this plea. Presumably "full credit" means the maximum
permitted reduction of the fine.
|
It is easy to find examples of "with credit," but here are two with
"with full credit":
The Saginaw News, Monday, August 09, 2004
| Quote: | FLINT
Nakeisha N. Ivory, 24, was sentenced by Circuit Judge William A.
Crane to 30 days in jail, with full credit, and two years of
probation for resisting and obstructing a police officer and
third-degree retail fraud Dec. 4, 2002, at Prime Outlets at Birch
Run, Birch Run. The judge ordered Ivory to pay $420 in fees and
fines. Ivory pleaded guilty.
|
The Saginaw News, Sunday, August 29, 2004
| Quote: | FLINT
Jamilia L. Sadler, 33, was sentenced by Borrello to 400 days in jail,
with full credit, for attempting to resist and obstruct a police
officer June 30, 2003, at the Watering Trough Saloon, 7734 Gratiot,
Thomas Township. The judge ordered Sadler to pay $120 in fees and
fines. Sadler pleaded guilty. |
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Don Aitken
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:48 pm
Post subject: Re: UK legal jargon? -- "to plead guilty with full credit" |
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On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 09:37:07 -0700 (PDT), "T. Z."
<Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote:
| Quote: |
This is from a document intended for the general UK
public.
"two firms pleaded guilty with full credit"
-- does this mean that the firms pleaded guilty
unconditionally (whatever that might mean)?
"Safety legislation is being more rigourously enforced
and fines are increasing. For example, at courts in
XXX (places) during one month in 2003, two firms who
pleaded guilty with full credit in respect?@of
non-fatal accidents were fined 80,000 pounds and
100,000 pounds respectively. HSE aims to promote
compliance with safety law and the trend seems to be
moving towards those firms who find themselves in
breach paying an ever-heavier price."
I know the English legal system fairly well, and it baffles me. The |
term "full credit" does not seem to appear on the HSE website, either
in the "Enforcement Guide" for prosecutors at
http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/enforcementguide/index.htm or anywhere
else.
It may *possibly* refer to "full credit for a plea of guilty" which
would mean that the scenario being considered is that in which the
defendant admits guilt immediately and pleads guilty at the first
possible opportunity, thereby obtaining a discount on sentencing. This
is feature of the criminal justice system generally, and is not
specific to Health & Safety prosecutions. But the document is
certainly highly obscure.
If you want a more expert opinion, try uk.legal.moderated (noting that
that group accepts no crossposts).
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com". |
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Keeper
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:15 am
Post subject: Re: UK legal jargon? -- "to plead guilty with full credit" |
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In message <chfpvc$bs9$1@titan.btinternet.com>, Tom
<tom@dataprotect.coNO.SPAMuk> writes
| Quote: | T. Z. wrote...
This is from a document intended for the general UK
public.
"two firms pleaded guilty with full credit"
-- does this mean that the firms pleaded guilty
unconditionally (whatever that might mean)?
"Safety legislation is being more rigourously enforced
and fines are increasing. For example, at courts in
XXX (places) during one month in 2003, two firms who
pleaded guilty with full credit in respect?@of
non-fatal accidents were fined 80,000 pounds and
100,000 pounds respectively. HSE aims to promote
compliance with safety law and the trend seems to be
moving towards those firms who find themselves in
breach paying an ever-heavier price."
Full credit is often the result of "a timely guilty plea and
co-operation with the investigation". It's not part of the plea, but
the judgment.
I think this is the relevant law, although it doesn't talk about
"credit" it does explain the principle :-
Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00006--r.htm#152
and there's plenty on Google:
"The extent of the sentencing discount allowed will vary according to
the timing and circumstances of the plea. A defendant who pleads guilty
before venue is decided at the magistrates’ court will normally be
given full credit for so doing, which may amount to a discount of one
third, or more. Full credit will not, however, be given in a case where
the defendant, in effect, has little choice but to plead guilty."
"The Home Secretary's point about defendants playing the system to
get to the Crown court may have been a good one some years ago, but it
is now grossly exaggerated as it hardly happens at all--not least
because of the introduction of plea-before-venue, coupled with full
credit for early guilty pleas."
"the judge had said that if he pleaded guilty he would get full credit,
and the sentence would be below four years."
"The court gave him full credit for pleading guilty and imposed a £220 fine."
As far as the law in England and Wales goes the above is a pretty good |
guide for the layman. However I did notice that the original quotes were
from a Canadian Publication. Given the wonderful flexibility of
English words ( especially in the mouths of lawyers) it is at least
possible that the Canadian meaning is different.
--
Keeper |
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CB
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:35 pm
Post subject: Re: UK legal jargon? -- "to plead guilty with full credit" |
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|
"Keeper" <keeper@freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:BehbZ3H5H4OBFwu$@soloriens.co.uk...
| Quote: | In message <chfpvc$bs9$1@titan.btinternet.com>, Tom
tom@dataprotect.coNO.SPAMuk> writes
T. Z. wrote...
This is from a document intended for the general UK
public.
"two firms pleaded guilty with full credit"
-- does this mean that the firms pleaded guilty
unconditionally (whatever that might mean)?
"Safety legislation is being more rigourously enforced
and fines are increasing. For example, at courts in
XXX (places) during one month in 2003, two firms who
pleaded guilty with full credit in respect?@of
non-fatal accidents were fined 80,000 pounds and
100,000 pounds respectively. HSE aims to promote
compliance with safety law and the trend seems to be
moving towards those firms who find themselves in
breach paying an ever-heavier price."
Full credit is often the result of "a timely guilty plea and
co-operation with the investigation". It's not part of the plea, but
the judgment.
I think this is the relevant law, although it doesn't talk about
"credit" it does explain the principle :-
Powers of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00006--r.htm#152
and there's plenty on Google:
"The extent of the sentencing discount allowed will vary according to
the timing and circumstances of the plea. A defendant who pleads guilty
before venue is decided at the magistrates' court will normally be
given full credit for so doing, which may amount to a discount of one
third, or more. Full credit will not, however, be given in a case where
the defendant, in effect, has little choice but to plead guilty."
"The Home Secretary's point about defendants playing the system to
get to the Crown court may have been a good one some years ago, but it
is now grossly exaggerated as it hardly happens at all--not least
because of the introduction of plea-before-venue, coupled with full
credit for early guilty pleas."
"the judge had said that if he pleaded guilty he would get full credit,
and the sentence would be below four years."
"The court gave him full credit for pleading guilty and imposed a 220
fine."
As far as the law in England and Wales goes the above is a pretty good
guide for the layman. However I did notice that the original quotes were
from a Canadian Publication. Given the wonderful flexibility of
English words ( especially in the mouths of lawyers) it is at least
possible that the Canadian meaning is different.
I've never heard of that kind of credit being given in Canada, and a brief |
googling on Canadian websites has produced nothing relevant. If the
sentence includes a prison term, twice the time served awaiting trial is
deducted, and this is referred to as credit. Lately, some judges have been
commenting on atrocious jail conditions and awarding triple credit, which
seems to indicate that it's a matter of custom and discretion, not
prescribed by statute. CDB |
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