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Rocky3
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:51 am
Post subject: Informations about William Blake? |
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Hello to everybody!
I just studied William Blake at school in English Literature (I'm an
Italian student) and then I listened a song written by Loreena McKennitt
called Lullaby and I discovered that the words are taken from a Blake poem.
I think that its name is Lullaby, like the song, but I'm not sure of this.
I searched in the web other informations about this poem, I found the site
http://www.blakearchive.org.uk/main.html, but in the archive I didn't found
anything about the poem I'm searching. I'm writing to you its first lines:
O for a voice like thunder, and a tongue
To drown the throat of war! - When the senses
Are shaken, and the soul is driven to madness,
Who can stand? When the souls of the oppressed
I would know the book, or the collection of poems to which it belongs. And,
if it's possibile, I would like to find an Italian poetic traduction of
this "Lullaby", if I can call it in this way.
Is there anyone who can help me?
Thank you anyway!
Rocky3
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:39 am
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:51:00 GMT, Rocky3 <prova@prova.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Hello to everybody!
I just studied William Blake at school in English Literature (I'm an
Italian student) and then I listened a song written by Loreena McKennitt
called Lullaby and I discovered that the words are taken from a Blake poem.
I think that its name is Lullaby, like the song, but I'm not sure of this.
I searched in the web other informations about this poem, I found the site
http://www.blakearchive.org.uk/main.html, but in the archive I didn't found
anything about the poem I'm searching. I'm writing to you its first lines:
O for a voice like thunder, and a tongue
To drown the throat of war! - When the senses
Are shaken, and the soul is driven to madness,
Who can stand? When the souls of the oppressed
I have found this in "Poetry and Prose of William Blake, edited by Geoffrey |
Keynes, The Nonesuch Library, London, 1956" (first published by The Nonesuch
Press August 1927).
It is in a section titled "Poetical Sketches" (originally printed 1783).
The heading of the poem is "Prologue, intended for a dramatic piece of King
Edward the Fourth".
| Quote: | I would know the book, or the collection of poems to which it belongs. And,
if it's possibile, I would like to find an Italian poetic traduction of
this "Lullaby", if I can call it in this way.
Is there anyone who can help me?
Thank you anyway!
Rocky3
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--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e) |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:40 am
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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Rocky3 wrote:
| Quote: | Hello to everybody!
I just studied William Blake at school in English Literature (I'm an
Italian student) and then I listened a song written by Loreena
McKennitt called Lullaby and I discovered that the words are taken
from a Blake poem. I think that its name is Lullaby, like the song,
but I'm not sure of this. I searched in the web other informations
about this poem, I found the site
http://www.blakearchive.org.uk/main.html, but in the archive I didn't
found anything about the poem I'm searching. I'm writing to you its
first lines:
O for a voice like thunder, and a tongue
To drown the throat of war! - When the senses
Are shaken, and the soul is driven to madness,
Who can stand? When the souls of the oppressed
I would know the book, or the collection of poems to which it
belongs. And, if it's possibile, I would like to find an Italian
poetic traduction of this "Lullaby", if I can call it in this way.
Is there anyone who can help me?
Thank you anyway!
|
It's called 'Prologue, intended for a Dramatic Piece of King Edward the
Fourth', from "Poetical Sketches" (1783) - his first book of poetry.
--
John Briggs
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Rocky3
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:45 am
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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Il Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:39:20 +0000, Peter Duncanson ha scritto:
| Quote: | It is in a section titled "Poetical Sketches" (originally printed 1783).
|
Yes, thank you! In my text-book I saw it as one of the first collection
written by Blake.
| Quote: | The heading of the poem is "Prologue, intended for a dramatic piece of King
Edward the Fourth".
|
Perfect, thank you very much! Now... I hope not to ask too much questions,
but could you suggest me some possible interpretations of
this poem? What does Blake mean with it? I particularly can't
understand the last line: "Hear it not, Heaven, thy Ministers have done
it", and the first words: "O for a voice like thunder"...
Could you help me again?
Thank you anyway!
Rocky3 |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:05 am
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 20:45:07 GMT, Rocky3 <prova@prova.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Il Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:39:20 +0000, Peter Duncanson ha scritto:
It is in a section titled "Poetical Sketches" (originally printed 1783).
Yes, thank you! In my text-book I saw it as one of the first collection
written by Blake.
The heading of the poem is "Prologue, intended for a dramatic piece of King
Edward the Fourth".
Perfect, thank you very much! Now... I hope not to ask too much questions,
but could you suggest me some possible interpretations of
this poem? What does Blake mean with it? I particularly can't
understand the last line: "Hear it not, Heaven, thy Ministers have done
it", and the first words: "O for a voice like thunder"...
Could you help me again?
Thank you anyway!
I am not an expert on the meaning of Blake's work. |
However, I will read this piece tomorrow, and attempt to understand it.
If no one else has explained it in the next 24 hours, I'll see what I can
do.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e) |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:14 am
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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At 22:05:28 on Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Peter Duncanson
<mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in
<bv1ov01d7o9h61m9kt9na2v3ufifbqskq3@4ax.com>:
| Quote: | On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 20:45:07 GMT, Rocky3 <prova@prova.com> wrote:
I particularly can't
understand the last line: "Hear it not, Heaven, thy Ministers have done
it", and the first words: "O for a voice like thunder"...
I am not an expert on the meaning of Blake's work.
However, I will read this piece tomorrow, and attempt to understand it.
If no one else has explained it in the next 24 hours, I'll see what I can
do.
|
I don't know the poem either, so can't help with the last line (which
must depend on what has gone before), but "O for a voice like thunder"
means "I wish I had a voice as loud as thunder (so that everyone could
hear what I say)".
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:32 am
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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Molly Mockford wrote:
| Quote: | At 22:05:28 on Sat, 29 Jan 2005, Peter Duncanson
mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in
bv1ov01d7o9h61m9kt9na2v3ufifbqskq3@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 20:45:07 GMT, Rocky3 <prova@prova.com> wrote:
I particularly can't
understand the last line: "Hear it not, Heaven, thy Ministers have
done it", and the first words: "O for a voice like thunder"...
I am not an expert on the meaning of Blake's work.
However, I will read this piece tomorrow, and attempt to understand
it. If no one else has explained it in the next 24 hours, I'll see what
I can do.
I don't know the poem either, so can't help with the last line (which
must depend on what has gone before), but "O for a voice like thunder"
means "I wish I had a voice as loud as thunder (so that everyone could
hear what I say)".
|
Oh, for a voice like thunder, and a tongue
To drown the throat of war ! When the senses
Are shaken, and the soul is driven to madness,
Who can stand ? When the souls of the oppressed
Fight in the troubled air that rages, who can stand ?
When the whirlwind of fury comes from the
Throne of God, when the frowns of his countenance
Drive the nations together, who can stand ?
When sin claps his broad wings over the battle,
And sails rejoicing in the flood of death;
When souls are torn to everlasting fire,
And fiends of hell rejoice upon the slain,
Oh, who can stand? Oh, who hath caused this ?
Oh, who can answer at the throne of God ?
The kings and nobles of the land have done it !
Hear it not, Heaven, thy ministers have done it !
--
John Briggs |
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Rocky3
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:48 am
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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Il Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:05:28 +0000, Peter Duncanson ha scritto:
| Quote: | If no one else has explained it in the next 24 hours, I'll see what I can
do.
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Thank you anyway! |
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Rocky3
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:51 am
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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Il Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:14:26 +0000, Molly Mockford ha scritto:
| Quote: | I don't know the poem either, so can't help with the last line (which
must depend on what has gone before), but "O for a voice like thunder"
means "I wish I had a voice as loud as thunder (so that everyone could
hear what I say)".
|
John Briggs had just posted it in the integral version. But... thank you
for explaining me the first line! If you can, I'm waiting for you to
understand also the last line.
Thank you very much anyway! And sorry for my bad English, but I'm an
Italian student!
Rocky3 |
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Mike Stevens
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:13 am
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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Rocky3 wrote:
| Quote: | Il Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:14:26 +0000, Molly Mockford ha scritto:
I don't know the poem either, so can't help with the last line (which
must depend on what has gone before), but "O for a voice like
thunder" means "I wish I had a voice as loud as thunder (so that
everyone could hear what I say)".
John Briggs had just posted it in the integral version. But... thank
you for explaining me the first line! If you can, I'm waiting for you
to understand also the last line.
|
I'm far from being an expert on Blake (and rather distrust anyone who claims
to be - Blake deliberately writes for much of the time in coded
references. many of them obscure).
But one thing about him is clear: he was very anti-clerical. So I take the
last line of this piece to say that organised religion must take a share of
the blame for the evils he describes. But, as so often with Blake, there
are probably plenty of equally valid readings of it.
--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man. |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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Mike Stevens wrote:
| Quote: | Rocky3 wrote:
Il Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:14:26 +0000, Molly Mockford ha scritto:
I don't know the poem either, so can't help with the last line
(which must depend on what has gone before), but "O for a voice like
thunder" means "I wish I had a voice as loud as thunder (so that
everyone could hear what I say)".
John Briggs had just posted it in the integral version. But... thank
you for explaining me the first line! If you can, I'm waiting for you
to understand also the last line.
I'm far from being an expert on Blake (and rather distrust anyone who
claims to be - Blake deliberately writes for much of the time in
coded references. many of them obscure).
But one thing about him is clear: he was very anti-clerical. So I
take the last line of this piece to say that organised religion must
take a share of the blame for the evils he describes. But, as so
often with Blake, there are probably plenty of equally valid readings
of it.
|
Maybe, but the "ministers" could also refer to the "kings and nobles" of the
previous line. The context is surely a play about the Wars of the Roses.
(While Googling, I came across a speech where this poem was quoted in
connection with the 9/11 attacks. For some reason, the last two lines
weren't used  )
--
John Briggs |
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Rocky3
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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Il Sun, 30 Jan 2005 01:13:52 -0000, Mike Stevens ha scritto:
| Quote: | I'm far from being an expert on Blake (and rather distrust anyone who claims
to be - Blake deliberately writes for much of the time in coded
references. many of them obscure).
|
Ok. Yes, infact our teacher had explained us that Blake mainly uses symbols
and obscure corrispondances.
| Quote: | But one thing about him is clear: he was very anti-clerical.
|
I think I didn't know it. This is a possible interpretation.
| Quote: | So I take the
last line of this piece to say that organised religion must take a share of
the blame for the evils he describes.
|
In fact he says: "Heaven, your Ministers have done it". Right! But I can't
understand the first words of the same line: "Hear it not, Heaven". What is
their meaning? In particular, I can't understand what he means with "hear
it not"... Could you explain me?
Thank you anyway for your support .
Rocky3 |
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Rocky3
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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Il Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:25:40 GMT, John Briggs ha scritto:
| Quote: | Maybe, but the "ministers" could also refer to the "kings and nobles" of the
previous line. The context is surely a play about the Wars of the Roses.
|
But he says "Heaven, thy (that means obviously "your") Ministers have done
it", so... I think he refers to the Ministers of the Heaven. Anyway, as I
wrote in the last post, I can't understand the first words of this last
line: "Hear it not, Heaven". How can I understand it? What does Blake means
with "Hear it not"? Maybe, by understanding these words, we can also
interpret all the line.
Thank you very much anyway!
Rocky3 |
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einde. ocallaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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Rocky3 wrote:
| Quote: | Il Sun, 30 Jan 2005 13:25:40 GMT, John Briggs ha scritto:
Maybe, but the "ministers" could also refer to the "kings and nobles" of the
previous line. The context is surely a play about the Wars of the Roses.
But he says "Heaven, thy (that means obviously "your") Ministers have done
it", so... I think he refers to the Ministers of the Heaven. Anyway, as I
wrote in the last post, I can't understand the first words of this last
line: "Hear it not, Heaven". How can I understand it? What does Blake means
with "Hear it not"? Maybe, by understanding these words, we can also
interpret all the line.
Thank you very much anyway!
|
"Do not hear it" (netgative imperative) - in earlier times the auxiliary
"do" wasn't always used. This usage is more common in poetry and is
still occasionally used even in modern poetry.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan |
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Mike Stevens
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Informations about William Blake? |
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John Briggs wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Stevens wrote:
Rocky3 wrote:
Il Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:14:26 +0000, Molly Mockford ha scritto:
I don't know the poem either, so can't help with the last line
(which must depend on what has gone before), but "O for a voice
like thunder" means "I wish I had a voice as loud as thunder (so
that everyone could hear what I say)".
John Briggs had just posted it in the integral version. But... thank
you for explaining me the first line! If you can, I'm waiting for
you to understand also the last line.
I'm far from being an expert on Blake (and rather distrust anyone who
claims to be - Blake deliberately writes for much of the time in
coded references. many of them obscure).
But one thing about him is clear: he was very anti-clerical. So I
take the last line of this piece to say that organised religion must
take a share of the blame for the evils he describes. But, as so
often with Blake, there are probably plenty of equally valid readings
of it.
Maybe, but the "ministers" could also refer to the "kings and nobles"
of the previous line.
|
Unlikely, I think. The line is "Hear it not, Heaven, thy ministers have
done it !", which, to my mind clearly says that it is Heaven's ministers
Blake is talking about here.
| Quote: | The context is surely a play about the Wars of
the Roses.
|
In which plenty of Bishops lead armies.
--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man. |
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