| Author |
Message |
Joanne Marinelli
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:58 pm
Post subject: Philharmonic as a proper name? |
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AEU must be having some kind of influence on my thought processes of late,
because I was reading an article which mentioned the New York Philharmonic,
and this set me off thinking about redundancy, the degree to which
redundancy is necessary for shades of meaning, because I do not necessarily
think of symphony orchestras and philharmonics as equivalent terms in a
generic sense. Isn't philharmonic normally used as part of a proper name for
a musical group? In the sense of The Boston Pops being one thing, and the
Philadelphia Mummers another? I know these two examples aren't orchestras,
but they are musical groups with their own unique characteristics. Doesn't
the term philharmonic denote the same sensibility?
Joanne
--
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DisabilityinArts/ |
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Michael Mendelsohn
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: Philharmonic as a proper name? |
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Joanne Marinelli schrieb:
| Quote: |
AEU must be having some kind of influence on my thought processes of late,
because I was reading an article which mentioned the New York Philharmonic,
and this set me off thinking about redundancy, the degree to which
redundancy is necessary for shades of meaning, because I do not necessarily
think of symphony orchestras and philharmonics as equivalent terms in a
generic sense. Isn't philharmonic normally used as part of a proper name for
a musical group? In the sense of The Boston Pops being one thing, and the
Philadelphia Mummers another? I know these two examples aren't orchestras,
but they are musical groups with their own unique characteristics. Doesn't
the term philharmonic denote the same sensibility?
|
The term "philharmonic" was coined in the 19th century. Meaning "music
loving", it was first applied to academies, societies or concerts;
later, the term was added to proper names and limited to big orchestras
(translated from Kluge, "Etymologisches Wörterbuch der deutschen
Sprache", 23rd ed.).
Personally, I'd expect a philharmonic orchestra to be able to play most
symphonies.
Michael
--
Still an attentive ear he lent Her speech hath caused this pain
But could not fathom what she meant Easier I count it to explain
She was not deep, nor eloquent. The jargon of the howling main
-- from Lewis Carroll: The Three Usenet Trolls |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:11 am
Post subject: Re: Philharmonic as a proper name? |
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"Joanne Marinelli" <Jozanny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d3xGd.13913$S11.1058@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| Quote: | Isn't philharmonic normally used as part of a proper name for
a musical group? In the sense of The Boston Pops being one thing, and the
Philadelphia Mummers another? I know these two examples aren't orchestras,
but they are musical groups with their own unique characteristics. Doesn't
the term philharmonic denote the same sensibility?
|
No rule governs usage of Philharmonic in the name of
any orchestra -- only local precedent (if any) and preference,
cf. the London Symphony Orchestra and the London Philharmonic
Orchestra.
I do not know the Mummers but you may find the Boston Pops
name one of the concert series of the Boston Symphonic Orchestra.
This is common in full-time professional orchestras.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Joanne Marinelli
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Philharmonic as a proper name? |
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"Michael Mendelsohn" <invalid@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote in message
news:41EAA159.DAAF2EE2@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de...
| Quote: | Joanne Marinelli schrieb:
AEU must be having some kind of influence on my thought processes of
late,
because I was reading an article which mentioned the New York
Philharmonic,
and this set me off thinking about redundancy, the degree to which
redundancy is necessary for shades of meaning, because I do not
necessarily
think of symphony orchestras and philharmonics as equivalent terms in a
generic sense. Isn't philharmonic normally used as part of a proper name
for
a musical group? In the sense of The Boston Pops being one thing, and
the
Philadelphia Mummers another? I know these two examples aren't
orchestras,
but they are musical groups with their own unique characteristics.
Doesn't
the term philharmonic denote the same sensibility?
The term "philharmonic" was coined in the 19th century. Meaning "music
loving", it was first applied to academies, societies or concerts;
later, the term was added to proper names and limited to big orchestras
(translated from Kluge, "Etymologisches Wörterbuch der deutschen
Sprache", 23rd ed.).
Personally, I'd expect a philharmonic orchestra to be able to play most
symphonies.
Michael
|
Thank you Michael. MW online does list a French etymology of "harmony
loving".
Joanne |
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Christopher Green
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Philharmonic as a proper name? |
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:10:54 GMT, "Joanne Marinelli"
<Jozanny@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Michael Mendelsohn" <invalid@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote in message
news:41EAA159.DAAF2EE2@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de...
Joanne Marinelli schrieb:
AEU must be having some kind of influence on my thought processes of
late,
because I was reading an article which mentioned the New York
Philharmonic,
and this set me off thinking about redundancy, the degree to which
redundancy is necessary for shades of meaning, because I do not
necessarily
think of symphony orchestras and philharmonics as equivalent terms in a
generic sense. Isn't philharmonic normally used as part of a proper name
for
a musical group? In the sense of The Boston Pops being one thing, and
the
Philadelphia Mummers another? I know these two examples aren't
orchestras,
but they are musical groups with their own unique characteristics.
Doesn't
the term philharmonic denote the same sensibility?
The term "philharmonic" was coined in the 19th century. Meaning "music
loving", it was first applied to academies, societies or concerts;
later, the term was added to proper names and limited to big orchestras
(translated from Kluge, "Etymologisches Wörterbuch der deutschen
Sprache", 23rd ed.).
Personally, I'd expect a philharmonic orchestra to be able to play most
symphonies.
Michael
Thank you Michael. MW online does list a French etymology of "harmony
loving".
Joanne
|
I believe that if you look into the organization of an orchestra that
have "Philharmonic" in their name, you will find a sponsor that calls
itself a Philharmonic Society (or its equivalent in another language:
e.g. the Wiener Philharmoniker and the Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde).
--
Chris Green |
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Alan Jones
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:42 am
Post subject: Re: Philharmonic as a proper name? |
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"Christopher Green" <cj.green@att.net> wrote in message
news:e9fqu0tijbuj6bstttl4ruu4a1gc5ubmoc@4ax.com...
[...]
| Quote: | I believe that if you look into the organization of an orchestra that
have "Philharmonic" in their name, you will find a sponsor that calls
itself a Philharmonic Society (or its equivalent in another language:
e.g. the Wiener Philharmoniker and the Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde).
|
The Leeds Philharmonic is in effect a large chorus, and has or had an
offshoot called The Young Phil, a mixture of a training choir and a deposit
of older singers who wouldn't get through the audition for the main chorus
or just liked a less demanding repertoire. Reasonably demanding, though: I
conducted the Young Phil for a season (or was it two?) before moving south,
and we joined a York choir for the first performance of a cantata by the S
African composer John Joubert. Alas, the Minster acoustics rather scuppered
an admirable piece ("Urbs Beata", it's called). On home ground we had rather
better luck with Haydn and Beethoven.
Alan Jones |
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