| Author |
Message |
Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:05 pm
Post subject: "pences" |
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We've never really recovered from decimalisation of the currency, have
we? But I thought I'd heard all the ghastly permutations such as "five
pees". Until today, when I heard a radio advert (for one of the many
cheap calls providers" which referred, over and over again, to "pences".
That advert must have been through many, many hands, from the person who
wrote it to the people who approved it, to the director who recorded it
and the actors who voiced it. Can nobody distinguish between a singular
and a plural any more?
--
Molly Mockford
I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that
lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be!
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
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On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:05:33 +0000, Molly Mockford
<nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | We've never really recovered from decimalisation of the currency, have
we? But I thought I'd heard all the ghastly permutations such as "five
pees". Until today, when I heard a radio advert (for one of the many
cheap calls providers" which referred, over and over again, to "pences".
That advert must have been through many, many hands, from the person who
wrote it to the people who approved it, to the director who recorded it
and the actors who voiced it. Can nobody distinguish between a singular
and a plural any more?
|
Can nobody even read the back of a coin - "ONE PENNY", "TWO PENCE", FIVE
PENCE", TEN PENCE", "TEWNTY PENCE", "FIFTY PENCE"?
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e) |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:59 pm
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
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In article <o5mco0d7deusjsd87fbbkt4rl1p4tiop26@4ax.com>, Peter
Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:19:30 -0000, "Matti Lamprhey"
matti@official-totally-reversed.com> wrote:
"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote...
Molly Mockford <nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
We've never really recovered from decimalisation of the currency,
have we? But I thought I'd heard all the ghastly permutations
such as "five pees". Until today, when I heard a radio advert
(for one of the many cheap calls providers" which referred, over
and over again, to "pences".
That advert must have been through many, many hands, from the
person who wrote it to the people who approved it, to the
director who recorded it and the actors who voiced it. Can nobody
distinguish between a singular and a plural any more?
Can nobody even read the back of a coin - "ONE PENNY", "TWO
PENCE", FIVE PENCE", TEN PENCE", "TEWNTY PENCE", "FIFTY PENCE"?
Golly! That one coin will fund your retirement.
Sadly that was my typo.
|
I missed the typo, as well, but was athinking that the legend on the
coin must be up to at least 50 billion pounds by now.
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/sotr/
Songs of the Ridings by F.W. Moorman:
25 Yorkshire Dialect Poems (Newly annotated in the year 2000) |
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Matti Lamprhey
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:19 pm
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
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|
"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote...
| Quote: | Molly Mockford <nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
We've never really recovered from decimalisation of the currency,
have we? But I thought I'd heard all the ghastly permutations such
as "five pees". Until today, when I heard a radio advert (for one of
the many cheap calls providers" which referred, over and over again,
to "pences".
That advert must have been through many, many hands, from the person
who wrote it to the people who approved it, to the director who
recorded it and the actors who voiced it. Can nobody distinguish
between a singular and a plural any more?
Can nobody even read the back of a coin - "ONE PENNY", "TWO PENCE",
FIVE PENCE", TEN PENCE", "TEWNTY PENCE", "FIFTY PENCE"?
|
Golly! That one coin will fund your retirement.
Matti |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:43 pm
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
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|
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:19:30 -0000, "Matti Lamprhey"
<matti@official-totally-reversed.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote...
Molly Mockford <nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
We've never really recovered from decimalisation of the currency,
have we? But I thought I'd heard all the ghastly permutations such
as "five pees". Until today, when I heard a radio advert (for one of
the many cheap calls providers" which referred, over and over again,
to "pences".
That advert must have been through many, many hands, from the person
who wrote it to the people who approved it, to the director who
recorded it and the actors who voiced it. Can nobody distinguish
between a singular and a plural any more?
Can nobody even read the back of a coin - "ONE PENNY", "TWO PENCE",
FIVE PENCE", TEN PENCE", "TEWNTY PENCE", "FIFTY PENCE"?
Golly! That one coin will fund your retirement.
Sadly that was my typo. |
--
Peter Duncanson
UK
(posting from u.c.l.e) |
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Giles Todd
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:35 am
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
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|
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 09:05:33 +0000, Molly Mockford
<nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | We've never really recovered from decimalisation of the currency, have
we? But I thought I'd heard all the ghastly permutations such as "five
pees". Until today, when I heard a radio advert (for one of the many
cheap calls providers" which referred, over and over again, to "pences".
That advert must have been through many, many hands, from the person who
wrote it to the people who approved it, to the director who recorded it
and the actors who voiced it. Can nobody distinguish between a singular
and a plural any more?
|
It may be horrible, but it's not new. OED2:
b. Applied colloq. as sing., orig. to a ‘new penny’ of the decimal
currency introduced in 1971 (see penny 1), and hence gen.
1971 Record (Oxf. Univ. Press) Dec. 10/2 The computer was found to
be rounding up to the nearest pence the Bank Code Numbers on the
Wages Slips. 1973 Daily Tel. 24 Oct. 16 In our village shop a
customer asked for some small change but the shopkeeper was unable to
oblige as she was very short or ‘two pences and one pences’. 1974
Ibid. 19 Dec. 12 In shops and elsewhere I often hear the
ungrammatical term ‘one pence’. I presume this is because the
occurrence of a single penny is becoming a thing of the past. 1975
M. Bradbury History Man i. 3 She leads her daily deputation to the
manager with comparative, up-to-the-minute lists showing how Fine
Fare, on lard, is one pence up on Sainsbury's, or vice versa. 1977
Times Lit. Suppl. 29 Apr. 528/3 The new and the supplemented lexical
entries equally reflect the times, with+p (but not the singular use
of pence) for new penny. 1979 Daily Tel. 11 Apr. 2/1 A taxi
passenger who refused to pay an extra charge of one pence on his
fare+was killed by the driver, police said in Manila.
Pure speculation on my part: referring to 'new pennies' as 'pence' and
'pences' in all circumstances served to distinguish more conveniently
between new money and old money (in cash rather than social terms)
than 'new penny' versus 'old penny' with the traditional plurals for
'penny'.
Whatever happened to 'Fine Fare', anyway? I used to shop in the
Leicester one when I lived in the UK.
Final point: ROT13 works beautifully on 'penc'.
I shall stop now.
Giles. |
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John Mazor
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:53 am
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
|
|
"David" <david@dacha.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:4d071b6495david@dacha.freeuk.com...
| Quote: | In article <o5mco0d7deusjsd87fbbkt4rl1p4tiop26@4ax.com>, Peter
Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
On Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:19:30 -0000, "Matti Lamprhey"
matti@official-totally-reversed.com> wrote:
"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote...
Molly Mockford <nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote:
We've never really recovered from decimalisation of the currency,
have we? But I thought I'd heard all the ghastly permutations
such as "five pees". Until today, when I heard a radio advert
(for one of the many cheap calls providers" which referred, over
and over again, to "pences".
That advert must have been through many, many hands, from the
person who wrote it to the people who approved it, to the
director who recorded it and the actors who voiced it. Can nobody
distinguish between a singular and a plural any more?
Can nobody even read the back of a coin - "ONE PENNY", "TWO
PENCE", FIVE PENCE", TEN PENCE", "TEWNTY PENCE", "FIFTY PENCE"?
Golly! That one coin will fund your retirement.
|
Over here in America, that statement, sadly, is getting close to the literal
truth. |
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John Smith
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:48 am
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
|
|
Molly Mockford wrote:
| Quote: | We've never really recovered from decimalisation of the currency, have
we? But I thought I'd heard all the ghastly permutations such as "five
pees". Until today, when I heard a radio advert (for one of the many
cheap calls providers" which referred, over and over again, to "pences".
That advert must have been through many, many hands, from the person who
wrote it to the people who approved it, to the director who recorded it
and the actors who voiced it. Can nobody distinguish between a singular
and a plural any more?
|
Hi,
I'm not a native speaker, can anyone tell me the differences between
penny, pees, pences ??
It seems to me that most people use "pees" for the plural and "penny"
for the singular ? is it correct ?
Thanks,
JS |
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John Hall
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:44 am
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
|
|
In article <cm8ha8$q9e$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>,
John Smith <user@example.net> writes:
| Quote: | I'm not a native speaker, can anyone tell me the differences between
penny, pees, pences ??
|
"Penny" is singular, "pee" or "pees" is horrid (see below), "pences" is
the equivalent of referring to "sheeps" since "pence" is the correct
plural form.
| Quote: |
It seems to me that most people use "pees" for the plural and "penny"
for the singular ? is it correct ?
|
I think that most people use "pee" for both singular and plural. It
began when we switched to decimal currency in 1971. Previously pence had
been indicated by the abbreviation "d" (for denarii). To distinguish the
"new" pence from the old, the abbreviation "p" was introduced. People at
once began talking about so many "pee". This is vile. Even Americans
know enough to say so many cents, not so many "c". (If any of my
American friends should read this, I'm only teasing.)
--
John Hall
"If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts;
but if he will be content to begin with doubts,
he shall end in certainties." Francis Bacon (1561-1626) |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
|
|
At 18:44:10 on Tue, 2 Nov 2004, John Hall <nospam_nov03@jhall.co.uk>
wrote in <Hezs3IE6V9hBFwGL@jhall.demon.co.uk>:
| Quote: | In article <cm8ha8$q9e$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>,
John Smith <user@example.net> writes:
I'm not a native speaker, can anyone tell me the differences between
penny, pees, pences ??
"Penny" is singular, "pee" or "pees" is horrid (see below), "pences" is
the equivalent of referring to "sheeps" since "pence" is the correct
plural form.
It seems to me that most people use "pees" for the plural and "penny"
for the singular ? is it correct ?
I think that most people use "pee" for both singular and plural.
|
However, the correct usage (for the benefit of non-native speakers) is
one penny, two pence, three pence etc. You may occasionally hear "two
pence" pronounced as "tuppence" or "ten pence" pronounced as "tenpence"
(i.e. the "pence" part is unstressed), because these are specific values
of coins so one can be referring to either an object or a value.
Prior to decimalisation, there was a delightful coin known as a
"thruppenny bit" (corruption of "threepenny") which was worth 3d, or
three old pence. The value was known as "thruppence" (from "three
pence"). There is no 3p coin any longer, so both "thrupenny" and
"thruppence" have died out.
<http://www.coinage-sales.co.uk/grafix/genericoins/threepenny100.png>
has a picture of a pre-1971 thruppenny bit.
--
Molly Mockford
I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that
lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be!
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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mUs1Ka
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:27 am
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
|
|
John Smith wrote:
| Quote: | between a singular and a plural any more?
Hi,
I'm not a native speaker, can anyone tell me the differences between
penny, pees, pences ??
It seems to me that most people use "pees" for the plural and "penny"
for the singular ? is it correct ?
One penny, two pence. A lot of people say: 1p (one pee), 2p (two pee), 10p |
(ten pee) etc.
"Pees" or "pences" are not used by educated people. Just like the "p"
version this may change, in time.
--
Ray |
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John Hall
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:31 am
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
|
|
In article <UrltmYti19hBFwHJ@molly.mockford>,
Molly Mockford <nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> writes:
| Quote: | http://www.coinage-sales.co.uk/grafix/genericoins/threepenny100.png
has a picture of a pre-1971 thruppenny bit.
|
That was a favourite coin of mine too. I believe that it only existed in
that form for a couple of decades, being preceded by a "silver"
thruppenny bit similar in size to the current 5p coin.
--
John Hall
"If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts;
but if he will be content to begin with doubts,
he shall end in certainties." Francis Bacon (1561-1626) |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:57 am
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
|
|
Molly Mockford wrote:
| Quote: | At 18:44:10 on Tue, 2 Nov 2004, John Hall <nospam_nov03@jhall.co.uk
wrote in <Hezs3IE6V9hBFwGL@jhall.demon.co.uk>:
In article <cm8ha8$q9e$1@south.jnrs.ja.net>,
John Smith <user@example.net> writes:
I'm not a native speaker, can anyone tell me the differences between
penny, pees, pences ??
"Penny" is singular, "pee" or "pees" is horrid (see below), "pences"
is the equivalent of referring to "sheeps" since "pence" is the
correct plural form.
It seems to me that most people use "pees" for the plural and
"penny" for the singular ? is it correct ?
I think that most people use "pee" for both singular and plural.
However, the correct usage (for the benefit of non-native speakers) is
one penny, two pence, three pence etc. You may occasionally hear "two
pence" pronounced as "tuppence" or "ten pence" pronounced as
"tenpence" (i.e. the "pence" part is unstressed), because these are
specific values of coins so one can be referring to either an object
or a value.
Prior to decimalisation, there was a delightful coin known as a
"thruppenny bit" (corruption of "threepenny") which was worth 3d, or
three old pence. The value was known as "thruppence" (from "three
pence"). There is no 3p coin any longer, so both "thrupenny" and
"thruppence" have died out.
http://www.coinage-sales.co.uk/grafix/genericoins/threepenny100.png
has a picture of a pre-1971 thruppenny bit.
|
Thrup nibbet, shirley?
--
John Briggs |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:21 am
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
|
|
At 20:57:13 on Tue, 2 Nov 2004, John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com>
wrote in <JwShd.861$bo3.287@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>:
| Quote: | Molly Mockford wrote:
Prior to decimalisation, there was a delightful coin known as a
"thruppenny bit" (corruption of "threepenny") which was worth 3d, or
three old pence. The value was known as "thruppence" (from "three
pence"). There is no 3p coin any longer, so both "thrupenny" and
"thruppence" have died out.
Thrup nibbet, shirley?
|
 I don't remember any other coin being called a bit, by the way. The
only one that sounds even half-right would be a two-bob bit, and that
was of course a florin. Perhaps that's the problem - that all the old
coins did have their own unique names, and none of the new ones do.
(Apart from the pound coin, of course - the Thatcher. Cheap, brassy and
thinks it's a sovereign.) It is perfectly possible for coins, notes and
amounts to acquire names even in latter days; look how quickly UKP2000
became known as an Archer.
--
Molly Mockford
I think I've been too long on my own, but the little green goblin that
lives under the sink says I'm OK - and he's never wrong, so I must be!
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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| Back to top |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:40 am
Post subject: Re: "pences" |
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|
Molly Mockford wrote:
| Quote: | At 20:57:13 on Tue, 2 Nov 2004, John Briggs
john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in
JwShd.861$bo3.287@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>:
Molly Mockford wrote:
Prior to decimalisation, there was a delightful coin known as a
"thruppenny bit" (corruption of "threepenny") which was worth 3d, or
three old pence. The value was known as "thruppence" (from "three
pence"). There is no 3p coin any longer, so both "thrupenny" and
"thruppence" have died out.
Thrup nibbet, shirley?
:-) I don't remember any other coin being called a bit, by the way.
The only one that sounds even half-right would be a two-bob bit, and
that was of course a florin. Perhaps that's the problem - that all
the old coins did have their own unique names, and none of the new
ones do. (Apart from the pound coin, of course - the Thatcher. Cheap,
brassy and thinks it's a sovereign.) It is perfectly possible
for coins, notes and amounts to acquire names even in latter days; look
how quickly UKP2000 became known as an Archer.
|
By an association of ideas, why was the Dutch Florin called a Guilder? (Or
vice versa, of course.)
--
John Briggs |
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