| Author |
Message |
Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:54 am
Post subject: Re: Caribbean |
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On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:58:55 -0500, "Maria Conlon"
<mariaconlon001@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Ross Howard wrote:
I heard another excellent MIMIM word on some TV showgramme or ither
last night: "ex-spearmints".
That's chewed gum, isn't it?
Maria Conlon
Occasional Purchaser of Wrigley's Spearmint
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I thought it was a reference to the Doublemint Twins. |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:07 am
Post subject: Re: flip-flopper at the ADS |
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On 20 Jan 2005 13:08:55 -0800, William R Ward <bill@wards.net>
wrought:
| Quote: | Ross Howard <gguiri@yahoo.com> writes:
I don't really know why "Caribbean" sounds not-quite-right for the
17th century to me -- but it just does. I imagine Sara will be able to
set us straight.
You've obviously not been sufficiently indoctrinated by the "Pirates
of the Caribbean" ride at Disneyland. Aarrrr.
|
No, I just can't imagine a real pirate of the Caribbean saying,
"Aaarrr! Oi'm a poirate o' the Caribbean is oi!"
Where are Messrs Lyle & Dean (or indeed Messrs Pearl and Tate) when we
need their OEDs? Anyone else for a first ref for "Caribbean (Sea)"?
--
Ross Howard |
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William R Ward
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:08 am
Post subject: Re: flip-flopper at the ADS |
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Ross Howard <gguiri@yahoo.com> writes:
| Quote: | I don't really know why "Caribbean" sounds not-quite-right for the
17th century to me -- but it just does. I imagine Sara will be able to
set us straight.
|
You've obviously not been sufficiently indoctrinated by the "Pirates
of the Caribbean" ride at Disneyland. Aarrrr.
--
William R Ward bill@wards.net http://bill.wards.net
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Help save the San Jose Earthquakes - http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/ |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:19 am
Post subject: Re: Caribbean |
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Ross Howard wrote:
| Quote: | On 17 Jan 2005 14:23:25 GMT, Areff <me@privacy.net> wrought:
William R Ward wrote:
Other words that vary like that (pondially, I think): suh-HARE-uh
vs. suh-HARR-uh (cf. the song "Tea in the Sahara" by The Police)
Wait, which there is which Pond? I'm guessing that by "HARR" you
mean the
"cart" vowel and that you're saying that that is the BrE
pronunciation.
Presumably you are MIMIM, that is, you do not distinguish "hairy",
"Harry", and "herry". For *some* of us AmE speakers, however,
"Sahara"
has the "Harry" vowel, which is not the "hare" vowel.
If BrE really uses "cart" in "Sahara", that seems to run counter to
the
usual thing we see ("foreign" words where <a> is interpreted as
"cat" by
BrE but "cart" by AmE).
I heard another excellent MIMIM word on some TV showgramme or ither
last night: "ex-spearmints".
|
This what Areff has not called "The Jeery Phenomenon", in which MINMINM
speakers, hearing the "Mary" vowel where they expect the "merry" vowel,
interpret it as the "mere" vowel and thus think I pronounce my name
"Jeery". Cf. "The Geery Phenomenon", which a college classmate of mine
named Gary could tell you all about.
(Or the person could have said "ex-spearmints". I wasn't there.)
--
Jerry Friedman |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:07 am
Post subject: Re: flip-flopper at the ADS |
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Ross Howard wrote:
| Quote: | On 20 Jan 2005 13:08:55 -0800, William R Ward <bill@wards.net
wrought:
Ross Howard <gguiri@yahoo.com> writes:
I don't really know why "Caribbean" sounds not-quite-right for the
17th century to me -- but it just does. I imagine Sara will be able
to set us straight.
You've obviously not been sufficiently indoctrinated by the "Pirates
of the Caribbean" ride at Disneyland. Aarrrr.
No, I just can't imagine a real pirate of the Caribbean saying,
"Aaarrr! Oi'm a poirate o' the Caribbean is oi!"
Where are Messrs Lyle & Dean (or indeed Messrs Pearl and Tate) when we
need their OEDs? Anyone else for a first ref for "Caribbean (Sea)"?
|
Pa-pa-pa-PAH-pa-papa whatever.
Um, I'm HERE. I was just talking to you a moment ago.
You want OED?
< I want OED >
You want OED?
< YES I WANT OED >
You can't HANDLE OED! FUNEX?
Anyway, OED (bizarrely IMHO) has "Caribbean" only as an afterthought to
"Carib".
.... Hence "Caribal a. (after cannibal); Cari"bbean a. and n., applied
to certain of the West Indian isles, and to the sea between them and the
mainland;
And no cites for "Caribbean" as a geographical term. (This is OED2 on
CD; I'd guess the on-line version has something better).
Better represented is:
b. Spanish Main, the mainland of America adjacent to the Caribbean
Sea, esp. that portion of the coast stretching from the Isthmus of
Panama to the mouth of the Orinoco; in later use also, the sea
contiguous to this, or the route traversed by the Spanish register
ships. Now Hist.
1725 Sloane Jamaica II. 297 This is brought from the Spanish Main, or
Continent of America. 1765 Phil. Trans. LV. 50 The portrait of a child
born of negro parents upon the Spanish main. 1803 J. Burney Disc. in
South Sea i. i. 7 That part of the continent, since known by the names
of Terra Firma, and the Spanish Main. 1839 Longfellow Wreck Hesperus
iv, Then+spake an old Sailor, Had sailed the Spanish Main. 1890 J.
Corbett Drake viii. 110 Cartagena was the capital of the Spanish Main.
--
John Dean Debacle
Oxford |
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Laura F. Spira
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:29 pm
Post subject: Re: flip-flopper at the ADS |
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Ross Howard wrote:
| Quote: |
Where are Messrs Lyle & Dean (or indeed Messrs Pearl and Tate)
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Neat.
P & D are still going apparently and the music can be revisited at
http://www.pearlanddean.com/intro_ns.html
And now I have a *really* nasty bout of STS to deal with.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email) |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:21 pm
Post subject: Caribbean [WAS: flip-flopper at the ADS] |
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John Dean <john-dean@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
And no cites for "Caribbean" as a geographical term. (This is OED2 on
CD; I'd guess the on-line version has something better).
|
Since you didn't find much, I can report I didn't find much, either.
There's a page of citations mostly making the connection to the word
"cannibal"
http://employees.oneonta.edu/ramirel/spring00/ids/jan28.html
At the end are some references to "Caribbean," including DeFoe, 1719.
"Caribbees" appears to be the older term, relating to the Antilles and
the people thereon. That sounds nice and pirate-y, doesn't it?
"Caribbees." And it would suggest that the resulting adjective
"Caribbean" would have the stress on "be".
French influence in the region might have confused things, though...
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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dcw
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:23 pm
Post subject: Re: flip-flopper at the ADS |
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In article <csph4f$5ik$2@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>,
John Dean <john-dean@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Anyway, OED (bizarrely IMHO) has "Caribbean" only as an afterthought to
"Carib".
|
According to Burchfield, it's OED policy to exclude placenames, though
there are some included for no obvious reason. "West Indies" is one.
David |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:42 pm
Post subject: Re: flip-flopper at the ADS |
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On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:29:04 +0000, "Laura F. Spira"
<laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrought:
| Quote: | Ross Howard wrote:
Where are Messrs Lyle & Dean (or indeed Messrs Pearl and Tate)
Neat.
P & D are still going apparently and the music can be revisited at
http://www.pearlanddean.com/intro_ns.html
And now I have a *really* nasty bout of STS to deal with.
|
CHA-CHAN, chuh-CHAN, chuh-CHAN, chuh-CHAN, CHA-chuh-chan....
--
Ross Howard |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Caribbean [WAS: flip-flopper at the ADS] |
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On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 11:21:21 +0100, trio@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
wrought:
| Quote: | John Dean <john-dean@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
And no cites for "Caribbean" as a geographical term. (This is OED2 on
CD; I'd guess the on-line version has something better).
Since you didn't find much, I can report I didn't find much, either.
There's a page of citations mostly making the connection to the word
"cannibal"
http://employees.oneonta.edu/ramirel/spring00/ids/jan28.html
At the end are some references to "Caribbean," including DeFoe, 1719.
"Caribbees" appears to be the older term, relating to the Antilles and
the people thereon. That sounds nice and pirate-y, doesn't it?
|
Aaaarrr! Fer sure it do! To the Caribbees, me hearties, where the
pickins be rich they be!
--
Ross Howard |
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Linz
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:41 pm
Post subject: Re: flip-flopper at the ADS |
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"Laura F. Spira" <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote in message
news:csqi0t$rkk$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
| Quote: | Ross Howard wrote:
Where are Messrs Lyle & Dean (or indeed Messrs Pearl and Tate)
Neat.
P & D are still going apparently and the music can be revisited at
http://www.pearlanddean.com/intro_ns.html
And now I have a *really* nasty bout of STS to deal with.
|
It was the done thing to sing along to that at FilmSoc when I was a
student and the habit came back to haunt me. I went with a friend to
the local cinema and just as the advertising started, the sound broke.
So he and I sang the theme and got a round of applause.
PapapapapaaaPA! |
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Richard Maurer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:54 pm
Post subject: Re: flip-flopper at the ADS |
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Laura F. Spira wrote:
And now I have a *really* nasty bout of STS to deal with.
Ross Howard wrote:
CHA-CHAN, chuh-CHAN, chuh-CHAN, chuh-CHAN, CHA-chuh-chan....
Aversion therapy?
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:36 pm
Post subject: Gum peeve [Was: Re: Caribbean] |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:58:55 -0500, "Maria Conlon"
mariaconlon001@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ross Howard wrote:
I heard another excellent MIMIM word on some TV showgramme or
ither
last night: "ex-spearmints".
That's chewed gum, isn't it?
Maria Conlon
Occasional Purchaser of Wrigley's Spearmint
I thought it was a reference to the Doublemint Twins.
|
FGS, is it now regarded as appropriate for nurses to chew gum on
duty? And, if it is, are they really allowed to do it with their
bloody mouths open?
And in a Barclays Bank branch the other day, one of the suits was
talking to a client at an interview desk, and using his mouth-open
mastication as part of his smile. Barclays are a bit brash, I know;
but if it starts happening at my own bank I'm going to get seriously
connipted. Apparently it was a Providential Mercy that my
bank-manager grandfather didn't live to see banks advertising, so I
can hardly begin to imagine his reaction to outward and visible
chicle.
Mike. |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Caribbean |
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On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:54:19 GMT, Tony Cooper
<tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:58:55 -0500, "Maria Conlon"
mariaconlon001@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ross Howard wrote:
I heard another excellent MIMIM word on some TV showgramme or ither
last night: "ex-spearmints".
That's chewed gum, isn't it?
Maria Conlon
Occasional Purchaser of Wrigley's Spearmint
I thought it was a reference to the Doublemint Twins.
Careful, Coop, for a mention of twins may stir Maria to rehash the |
nappies topic in double time.
--
Charles Riggs |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:14 pm
Post subject: Re: flip-flopper at the ADS |
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|
John Dean wrote:
| Quote: | Ross Howard wrote:
On 20 Jan 2005 13:08:55 -0800, William R Ward <bill@wards.net
wrought:
Ross Howard <gguiri@yahoo.com> writes:
I don't really know why "Caribbean" sounds not-quite-right for
the
17th century to me -- but it just does. I imagine Sara will be
able
to set us straight.
You've obviously not been sufficiently indoctrinated by the
"Pirates
of the Caribbean" ride at Disneyland. Aarrrr.
No, I just can't imagine a real pirate of the Caribbean saying,
"Aaarrr! Oi'm a poirate o' the Caribbean is oi!"
Where are Messrs Lyle & Dean (or indeed Messrs Pearl and Tate)
when
we need their OEDs? Anyone else for a first ref for "Caribbean
(Sea)"?
Pa-pa-pa-PAH-pa-papa whatever.
Um, I'm HERE. I was just talking to you a moment ago.
You want OED?
I want OED
You want OED?
YES I WANT OED
You can't HANDLE OED! FUNEX?
Anyway, OED (bizarrely IMHO) has "Caribbean" only as an
afterthought
to "Carib".
... Hence "Caribal a. (after cannibal); Cari"bbean a. and n.,
applied to certain of the West Indian isles, and to the sea between
them and the mainland;
And no cites for "Caribbean" as a geographical term. (This is OED2
on
CD; I'd guess the on-line version has something better).
Better represented is:
b. Spanish Main, the mainland of America adjacent to the
Caribbean
Sea, [...]
|
"After the show, why not relax with a visit to the OED?"
Odd that OED 1 & 2 _use_ "Caribbean Sea" without providing
quotations: odder still if 3's only example is OED1 (has this
happened?). Publishing in fascicles can play hell with scholarship;
but it's not in the 1931 Supplement, either. (I can't get _The
Century Dictionary_ to work.)
On pronunciation (re Donna, downthread), I think the locals prefer to
place the stress on the "-rib-".
Mike. |
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