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HB
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:22 pm
Post subject: Lieutenant |
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I've always been curious about the difference in pronounciation of this
word in UK and US English.
In US English the word is pronounced as it is written (ljuutenent),
while in UK English people say 'leftenent'.
Does anyone know where the UK pronounciation comes from?
- Herman -
Flanders
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Lieutenant |
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HB wrote:
| Quote: | I've always been curious about the difference in pronounciation of
this word in UK and US English.
In US English the word is pronounced as it is written (ljuutenent),
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Well, no. The Americans use a pronunciation as if it were a word in the
English language, rather than a French one. (And they say "Loo-" rather
than "Lyoo-".) Or else they may be using an archaic naval pronunciation.
| Quote: | while in UK English people say 'leftenent'.
Does anyone know where the UK pronounciation comes from?
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I've forgotten the real explanation, but how would you pronounce in Flemish
if it were spelt "Lievtenant"?
--
John Briggs |
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Ildhund
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:02 am
Post subject: Re: Lieutenant |
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| Quote: | I've always been curious about the difference in pronounciation of this
word in UK and US English.
In US English the word is pronounced as it is written (ljuutenent),
while in UK English people say 'leftenent'.
Does anyone know where the UK pronounciation comes from?
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Wikipedia says according to www.answers.com quote
The word is pronounced loo-tenant in American English and usually lef-tenant
in British English. The Royal Navy, however, traditionally pronounce the
word as l'tenant which is a closer anglicised approximation of the original
French.
In Canada, lef-tenant is standard for all branches of the Armed Forces and
for other usages such as lieutenant governor or Quebec lieutenant.
The British pronunciation is prevalent during 14th and 15th centuries with
the word being variously spelled as lieftenant, lyeftenant or luftenant. It
may have originated from a mistaken reading of the 'u' as a 'v', lev-tenant
eventually becoming lef-tenant. Some sources state that the original French
word lieu had an alternative form spelt and pronounced lieuf, and that the
modern British English form retains the former spelling and the latter
pronunciation.
It has also been speculated that it may have come from a fanciful etymology
which associated it with the verb 'to leave', as the lieutenant only took up
his duties once his superior officer had 'left'.
Another theory comes from the fact that in typical propriety the person or
persons standing to the rear-left of a gentleman held power and were
typically those directly second to him. The person or persons standing to
the rear-right were considered to have no or less standing than those to the
rear-left, such as aides, bodyguards, wives, etc., often holding this
position for simple facility rather than societal importance. This tradition
remains in military parades, with lieutenants standing to the rear-left of
the commanding officer (when facing the advance.) unquote
--
Noel
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HB
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:37 am
Post subject: Re: Lieutenant |
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Ildhund wrote:
| Quote: | Does anyone know where the UK pronounciation comes from?
Wikipedia says according to www.answers.com quote
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Thanks for the answer (did'nt know about the web site you mentioned).
Curious to see there is still a lot of speculation about the subject.
Nevertheless very interesting.
- Herman - |
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HB
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:40 am
Post subject: Re: Lieutenant |
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John Briggs wrote:
| Quote: | Does anyone know where the UK pronounciation comes from?
I've forgotten the real explanation, but how would you pronounce in
Flemish if it were spelt "Lievtenant"?
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Well, the current word is "luitenant" ('ui' being a dipthong similar to
the 'ou' in cough but then longer).
"Lievtenant" would be pronounced [le:ftenant] (e: as in 'leave')
- Herman - |
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John L
Joined: 14 Apr 2006
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:26 am
Post subject: |
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It is strange that I was thumbing through Google on this very thing, and came upon your forum and this question. Actually, the answer to this is quite straight forward.
The words "Leftenent" and "Lieutenant" mean exactly the same thing. Litteraly it means "Tenant on the Left", and origionates from medeival times.
During the Dark Ages and some time after, when soldiers or a gentleman and his lady would walk down a street of a village, towne, or city, there was always the constant danger of having ones self innundated with the sewage or garbage of the night before, that would be thrown out on to the street. That is where sewage was discarded in those days. That is why multiple story buildings always had an overhang, so people would walk down the street without being the target of unexpected waste.
Now, naturally the gentleman would wish to walk next to his lady, and would wish to protect her, or the junior soldier would wish to protect his commander from this disgrace, so he walked on the outside track, which would be on the left side. People walked on the right then, even in England. Therefore, the junior officer, would be the tenent of the left, or the Left tenent. That was how it all began.
Now, as for pronouncations, the Brits naturally use English, which is indeed correct. However, in the US, the Continental Army under George Washington was professionally trained by a Prussian, I can't remember the Colonel's name. And since the Germans AND French pronounce the word pretty much the same, it was added to the terms back then. And since we were no ally of England at the time, we refrained from using things such as this.
I hope that this helps out some. I realize that it is an older thread, but it is interesting to know how things get started.  |
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Geo.
Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:26 am
Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The words "Leftenent" and "Lieutenant" mean exactly the same thing. Litteraly it means "Tenant on the Left", and origionates from medeival times. |
No, I am sorry but that's incorrect. Lieutenant is still fully comprehensible in French, and it has nothing to do with the left, which in French is 'guache'. 'Lieutenant' means 'place-holder' to be literal.
| Quote: | During the Dark Ages and some time after, when soldiers or a gentleman and his lady would walk down a street of a village, towne, or city, there was always the constant danger of having ones self innundated with the sewage or garbage of the night before, that would be thrown out on to the street. That is where sewage was discarded in those days. That is why multiple story buildings always had an overhang, so people would walk down the street without being the target of unexpected waste.
Now, naturally the gentleman would wish to walk next to his lady, and would wish to protect her, or the junior soldier would wish to protect his commander from this disgrace, so he walked on the outside track, which would be on the left side. People walked on the right then, even in England. Therefore, the junior officer, would be the tenent of the left, or the Left tenent. That was how it all began. |
No, again, I am sorry, but this convention was still held well into the 20th century -- I was taught to do it myself as a boy -- that a woman walks on the inside, and a man on the out. If a turn is made, people do not cross the street to go back, people simply turn around and the man again assumes the outside, just as we were taught to do.
| Quote: | | The word is pronounced loo-tenant in American English and usually lef-tenant in British English. The Royal Navy, however, traditionally pronounce the word as l'tenant which is a closer anglicised approximation of the original French. |
This is exactly as I remember it growing up; many Americans believe there is only one pronunciation in England, and that isn't so. Moreover, the choice of pronunciation isn't arbitrary; the pronunciation is everything to do with which branch of the military, (and incidentally a naval lieutenant is a different rank altogether to an army lieutenant ... and this is true on both sides of the Atlantic). |
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