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retrosorter
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:19 am
Post subject: origin of "on the money"/"on the same page." |
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For an article I'm working on, I'm looking for the origins of the
idioms "on the money" and "on the same page." The former would seem to
come from the world of gambling, and perhaps horse-racing in
particular, and I'm wondering if anyone can confirm this and would know
when the idiom dates from. Vis-a-vis the idiom "on the same page,"
I've come up blank so far. One source claims that the expression comes
from choral singing but it is a source that I don''t lend much credence
to. Can anyone assist me?
Thanks |
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TakenEvent
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:44 am
Post subject: Re: origin of "on the money"/"on the same page." |
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"retrosorter" <hrichler@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1131643174.817133.217450@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | For an article I'm working on, I'm looking for the origins of the
idioms "on the money" and "on the same page." The former would seem to
come from the world of gambling, and perhaps horse-racing in
particular, and I'm wondering if anyone can confirm this and would know
when the idiom dates from. Vis-a-vis the idiom "on the same page,"
I've come up blank so far. One source claims that the expression comes
from choral singing but it is a source that I don''t lend much credence
to. Can anyone assist me?
Thanks
|
I would guess that "on the money" could come from roulette just as easily,
but the first Googled reference that offered an actual origin said
differently. From http://sportsidioms.com/page/14.htm:
IDIOM: bull's eye
target shooting,archery, darts
MEANING 1: the center of a target
SENTENCE 1: He scored a bull's eye with that shot.
MEANING 2: to win the point, to get the business deal because you were
particularly effective, to say or do exactly the right thing.
SENTENCE 2: You scored a bull's eye with your speech. The club is going to
give five thousand dollars to the literacy project.
DERIVATION: This expression derives from an old English sport, bullbaiting
dogs try to pull a bull by his nose to the ground. Gamblers would place a
bet "on the bull's eye" if he wished to make a bet. Crowns, an English coin,
were used to bet so frequently "on the bull's eye that the coin itself came
to be called a bull's-eye. Later, the term was applied to the black center
of a target. The idiom right on the money is also derived from the ancient
interchangeable use of a coin, bull's-eye and the center of a target. A
sentence in this case would be: " You were right on the money with your
speech."
___________________________
"On the same page" is fairly straightforward. From
http://www.goenglish.com/1703.asp:
"on the same page"
In business meetings and college classes people often make copies of a
single report and hand a copy to each person at the meeting. While they
discuss the different points in the report, each person needs to be reading
from the same page ("on the same page"). Everyone is "on the same page" when
they are all following along and understanding the basic idea that the group
is sharing. "On the same page" has a further meaning of people being in
basic understanding and agreement on something. Example: "Before we make any
decisions today, I'd like to make sure that everyone is on the same page."
People are "on the same page" when they look at a problem or a situation in
the same way and agree on a course of action. Example: "Each of us has been
busy with his own projects lately, so I called this meeting today to bring
us all together on the same page." |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:23 am
Post subject: Re: origin of "on the money"/"on the same page." |
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TakenEvent wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | I would guess that "on the money" could come from roulette just as
easily, but the first Googled reference that offered an actual
origin
said differently. From http://sportsidioms.com/page/14.htm:
IDIOM: bull's eye
target shooting,archery, darts
MEANING 1: the center of a target
SENTENCE 1: He scored a bull's eye with that shot.
MEANING 2: to win the point, to get the business deal because you
were
particularly effective, to say or do exactly the right thing.
SENTENCE 2: You scored a bull's eye with your speech. The club is
going to give five thousand dollars to the literacy project.
DERIVATION: This expression derives from an old English sport,
bullbaiting dogs try to pull a bull by his nose to the ground.
Gamblers would place a bet "on the bull's eye" if he wished to make
a
bet. Crowns, an English coin, were used to bet so frequently "on
the
bull's eye that the coin itself came to be called a bull's-eye.
Later, the term was applied to the black center of a target. The
idiom right on the money is also derived from the ancient
interchangeable use of a coin, bull's-eye and the center of a
target.
A sentence in this case would be: " You were right on the money
with
your speech." ___________________________
[...] |
I haven't looked in OED, but I'm sceptical about the above. There
have been a lot of medium-sized conspicuous round objects called
"bull's-eyes", just from the real or fancied resemblance. Betting on
"the bull's-eye" meaning the bull's nose touched the ground seems
very strained indeed. I smell brass monkeys.
....Oh, OK, I _will_ look in OED then...
No, no sign of the quoted origin in OED. So probably hooey.
Interestingly, none of the uses it gives is more than about 200 years
old, apart from the one for a crown piece; but even that seems to be
first recorded only in 1690.
--
Mike. |
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batdorf
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:56 am
Post subject: Re: origin of "on the money"/"on the same page." |
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"TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety@chartermi.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:tFLcf.1083$Ae3.91@fe06.lga...
| Quote: |
IDIOM: bull's eye
[....]
DERIVATION: This expression derives from an old English sport,
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Sport or spectacle?
HumphreyB |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:48 am
Post subject: Re: origin of "on the money"/"on the same page." |
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batdorf wrote:
| Quote: | "TakenEvent" <lightbulbsnickety@chartermi.net> escribió en el
mensaje
news:tFLcf.1083$Ae3.91@fe06.lga...
IDIOM: bull's eye
[....]
DERIVATION: This expression derives from an old English sport,
Sport or spectacle?
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I have that problem, too. But I'm afraid it was a sport, even if not
sport.
--
Mike. |
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batdorf
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:28 am
Post subject: Re: origin of "on the money"/"on the same page." |
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"Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> escribió en el mensaje
news:3ti12fFspi9tU1@individual.net...
| Quote: | I have that problem, too. But I'm afraid it was a sport, even if not
sport.
Sure enough... |
Well, at least it's "was"...in most cases!
HumphreyB |
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