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Message |
Narasimham
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:55 pm
Post subject: " How to form ice from water? " |
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In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse? Is it adequately understandable and
does it convey a sense of a query to those who read this single
interrogative sentence?
Should the subject of the sentence (we, you, anyone) be mentioned
unequivocally to judge it as having been properly constructed along
with a predicate of the sentence following it to elicit a response?
Thanks in advance for any comments.
Regards,
Narasimham
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Arfur Million
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:18 pm
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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"Narasimham" <mathma18@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131177322.941327.54090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse? Is it adequately understandable and
does it convey a sense of a query to those who read this single
interrogative sentence?
Should the subject of the sentence (we, you, anyone) be mentioned
unequivocally to judge it as having been properly constructed along
with a predicate of the sentence following it to elicit a response?
Thanks in advance for any comments.
|
I think the question is understandable from a grammatical viewpoint.
However, scientists do not automatically think of the substance "water" as
being in the liquid state, so I would expect either form of the question to
be answered along the lines of "ice is already water".
Regards,
Arfur |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:31 pm
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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On 4 Nov 2005 23:55:22 -0800, "Narasimham" <mathma18@hotmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse? Is it adequately understandable and
does it convey a sense of a query to those who read this single
interrogative sentence?
|
The question mark doesn't belong there for it is a statement, not a
question. I'd expect some instructions to follow it.
--
Charles Riggs
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:40 pm
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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"Narasimham" writes:
| Quote: | In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse?
|
I'd say a minor one.
| Quote: | Is it adequately understandable and does it convey a sense of a query
to those who read this single interrogative sentence?
|
It is understandable, but not grammatical. The problem is that
"to form" is an infinitive, so the whole expression "How to form
ice from water", even if written with a closing question mark,
has the grammatical function of a noun, not a sentence. Such an
expression is sometimes used to introduce discussion of a question,
or to introduce its answer, in the same way as a simple noun would be:
"How to form ice from water will be the subject of lesson 2."
"How to form ice from water? That was Frost's problem."
"How to form ice from water? Use a freezer, of course."
"Icemaking will be the subject of lesson 2."
"Icemaking. That was Frost's problem."
"Icemaking? Use a freezer, of course."
But to actually ask the question, you need a complete sentence.
| Quote: | Should the subject of the sentence (we, you, anyone) be mentioned
unequivocally to judge it as having been properly constructed along
with a predicate of the sentence following it to elicit a response?
|
That's one way, but you can also use the passive: "How can ice be formed
from water?" or "How is ice formed from water?"
--
Mark Brader There are people on that train!
Toronto Sure, they're Canadians, but they're still people!
msb@vex.net -- Paul Gross, "Due South"
My text in this article is in the public domain. |
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Fred
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:04 pm
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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"Narasimham" <mathma18@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131177322.941327.54090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse? Is it adequately understandable and
does it convey a sense of a query to those who read this single
interrogative sentence?
Should the subject of the sentence (we, you, anyone) be mentioned
unequivocally to judge it as having been properly constructed along
with a predicate of the sentence following it to elicit a response?
|
Just ask the following question. How is ice formed from water?
> |
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Troy Steadman
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:35 pm
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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Fred wrote:
| Quote: | "Narasimham" <mathma18@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131177322.941327.54090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse? Is it adequately understandable and
does it convey a sense of a query to those who read this single
interrogative sentence?
Should the subject of the sentence (we, you, anyone) be mentioned
unequivocally to judge it as having been properly constructed along
with a predicate of the sentence following it to elicit a response?
Just ask the following question. How is ice formed from water?
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And "Why does warm water turn to ice quicker than cold water?" |
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Adrian Bailey
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:52 pm
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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"Narasimham" <mathma18@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131177322.941327.54090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse?
|
No. This style of question is common enough.
Adrian |
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Prai Jei
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:13 pm
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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Narasimham (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
<1131177322.941327.54090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
| Quote: | In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse? Is it adequately understandable and
does it convey a sense of a query to those who read this single
interrogative sentence?
Should the subject of the sentence (we, you, anyone) be mentioned
unequivocally to judge it as having been properly constructed along
with a predicate of the sentence following it to elicit a response?
Thanks in advance for any comments.
Regards,
Narasimham
|
Just cool it, man 
--
Pelagiarism: passing off somebody else's heresy as your own
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:31 pm
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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"Narasimham" <mathma18@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131177322.941327.54090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse?
|
The OP question breaks no rule of grammar but is
unidiomatic in two ways:
1. "We form" is a grammatical but uncommon way
of asking question in this pattern. EFL speakers
usually say "How do you make XYZ?"
2. Ice and water are two phases of the same material
(H2O). We do not say "How do you make frozen water
from liquid water?" We say simply "How do you make ice?"
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:13 pm
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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Troy Steadman wrote:
| Quote: | And "Why does warm water turn to ice quicker than cold water?"
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goodness me, it's true!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpemba |
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:26 pm
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 08:31:48 +0000, Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On 4 Nov 2005 23:55:22 -0800, "Narasimham" <mathma18@hotmail.com
wrote:
In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse? Is it adequately understandable and
does it convey a sense of a query to those who read this single
interrogative sentence?
The question mark doesn't belong there for it is a statement, not a
question. I'd expect some instructions to follow it.
|
Interestingly (maybe), I think this is one of those cases where the addition of
a question mark turns the phrase from a statement to a question. Certainly it's
quite common in speech - " It was easy enough for the dog to get down the hole,
but how to get him out again? That's the question."
--
Jim
the polymoth |
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John O'Flaherty
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:41 pm
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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Arfur Million wrote:
| Quote: | "Narasimham" <mathma18@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131177322.941327.54090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse? Is it adequately understandable and
does it convey a sense of a query to those who read this single
interrogative sentence?
Should the subject of the sentence (we, you, anyone) be mentioned
unequivocally to judge it as having been properly constructed along
with a predicate of the sentence following it to elicit a response?
Thanks in advance for any comments.
I think the question is understandable from a grammatical viewpoint.
However, scientists do not automatically think of the substance "water" as
being in the liquid state, so I would expect either form of the question to
be answered along the lines of "ice is already water".
|
But since water isn't necessarily ice, it's still a valid way to put
the question.
--
john |
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Bill Bonde ('by a commodi
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 12:53 am
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: |
On 4 Nov 2005 23:55:22 -0800, "Narasimham" <mathma18@hotmail.com
wrote:
In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse? Is it adequately understandable and
does it convey a sense of a query to those who read this single
interrogative sentence?
The question mark doesn't belong there for it is a statement, not a
question. I'd expect some instructions to follow it.
How to form ice from water: Chill robustly. |
--
Had Tolstoy confined himself to war or peace, he could have been
finished in seven hundred and fifty pages.
--
In a day and age when some people would think nothing of throwing stones
at Rosa Parks, she dared to rock the bus. Bully for her! |
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Bill Bonde ('by a commodi
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:05 am
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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Don Phillipson wrote:
| Quote: |
"Narasimham" <mathma18@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131177322.941327.54090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse?
The OP question breaks no rule of grammar but is
unidiomatic in two ways:
1. "We form" is a grammatical but uncommon way
of asking question in this pattern. EFL speakers
usually say "How do you make XYZ?"
"EFL" usually means English as a Foreign Language. |
| Quote: | 2. Ice and water are two phases of the same material
(H2O). We do not say "How do you make frozen water
from liquid water?" We say simply "How do you make ice?"
You might make ice from steam differently than from liquid, not to |
mention possibilities involving eutectic mixtures. Perhaps: "How do you
make ice from pure liquid water?"
--
Had Tolstoy confined himself to war or peace, he could have been
finished in seven hundred and fifty pages.
--
In a day and age when some people would think nothing of throwing stones
at Rosa Parks, she dared to rock the bus. Bully for her! |
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| Back to top |
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Arfur Million
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:08 am
Post subject: Re: " How to form ice from water? " |
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"John O'Flaherty" <quiasmox@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131208870.137134.5610@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Arfur Million wrote:
"Narasimham" <mathma18@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131177322.941327.54090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
In a science newsgroup I asked a simple question, similar to the one
in the above-mentioned subject line, instead of " How do we form ice
from water? "
The difference appears quite trivial to me, but has there been a
serious grammar/language lapse? Is it adequately understandable and
does it convey a sense of a query to those who read this single
interrogative sentence?
Should the subject of the sentence (we, you, anyone) be mentioned
unequivocally to judge it as having been properly constructed along
with a predicate of the sentence following it to elicit a response?
Thanks in advance for any comments.
I think the question is understandable from a grammatical viewpoint.
However, scientists do not automatically think of the substance "water"
as
being in the liquid state, so I would expect either form of the question
to
be answered along the lines of "ice is already water".
But since water isn't necessarily ice, it's still a valid way to put
the question.
|
At best it's rather loose, equivalent to "how to form solid water from
water?".
Regards,
Arfur |
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