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David Picton
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:51 pm
Post subject: Iller, illest - incorrect, or just unidiomatic? |
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Yesterday I heard something which didn't sound right - a reference to
"iller" patients in a radio programme about hospital funding. I would
have said "sicker" instead. "Iller" and "illest" sound incorrect.
The forms "more/most ill" sound more acceptable but I would still
choose to avoid them. Are iller/illest/more ill/most ill simply
unidiomatic, or are they incorrect?
Some dictionaries give the comparative and superlative of "ill" as
"worse" and "worst", but I find them unsatisfactory - their meaning is
too imprecise.
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Nick Wagg
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Iller, illest - incorrect, or just unidiomatic? |
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"David Picton" <djpicton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123062666.635686.5970@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Some dictionaries give the comparative and superlative of "ill" as
"worse" and "worst", but I find them unsatisfactory - their meaning is
too imprecise.
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Poorlier, poorliest?
Or in a different context, more/most malign/evil. |
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John of Aix
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:25 am
Post subject: Re: Iller, illest - incorrect, or just unidiomatic? |
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David Picton wrote:
| Quote: | Yesterday I heard something which didn't sound right - a reference to
"iller" patients in a radio programme about hospital funding. I would
have said "sicker" instead. "Iller" and "illest" sound incorrect.
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Disgusting. 'Iller' and 'illest', though perfectly correct from a
construction point of view, are not what we use for sicker and sickest,
very ill or on death's door. I suggest you buy a shotgun and shoot the
person who uses these words.
I would say 'ill, very ill/sicker, extremely ill/knackered'
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David Picton
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Iller, illest - incorrect, or just unidiomatic? |
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John of Aix wrote:
| Quote: | David Picton wrote:
Yesterday I heard something which didn't sound right - a reference to
"iller" patients in a radio programme about hospital funding. I would
have said "sicker" instead. "Iller" and "illest" sound incorrect.
Disgusting. 'Iller' and 'illest', though perfectly correct from a
construction point of view, are not what we use for sicker and sickest,
very ill or on death's door. I suggest you buy a shotgun and shoot the
person who uses these words.
I would say 'ill, very ill/sicker, extremely ill/knackered'
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A Google Web survey suggests that "sicker/sickest" are indeed the
majority choice in the context of a group of patients. (N.B. the
quotes are part of the search string):
"iller|illest patients" 28
"sicker|sickest patients" 50,400
"sicklier|sickliest patients" 16
"more|most ill patients" 596
"more|most sick patients" 256
"more|most unwell patients" 30
"more|most sickly patients" 23 |
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Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:54 am
Post subject: Re: Iller, illest - incorrect, or just unidiomatic? |
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David Picton wrote:
| Quote: | John of Aix wrote:
David Picton wrote:
Yesterday I heard something which didn't sound right - a reference to
"iller" patients in a radio programme about hospital funding. I would
have said "sicker" instead. "Iller" and "illest" sound incorrect.
Disgusting. 'Iller' and 'illest', though perfectly correct from a
construction point of view, are not what we use for sicker and sickest,
very ill or on death's door. I suggest you buy a shotgun and shoot the
person who uses these words.
I would say 'ill, very ill/sicker, extremely ill/knackered'
A Google Web survey suggests that "sicker/sickest" are indeed the
majority choice in the context of a group of patients. (N.B. the
quotes are part of the search string):
"iller|illest patients" 28
"sicker|sickest patients" 50,400
"sicklier|sickliest patients" 16
"more|most ill patients" 596
"more|most sick patients" 256
"more|most unwell patients" 30
"more|most sickly patients" 23
Since the normal use of "ill" is predicative not attributive, i.e. we |
say "he's ill" but not usually "an ill patient", this isn't exactly a
good test of frequency of "iller" or "illest".
I also have no doubt that "sick" is much more common than "ill" because
IIRC "ill" is rarely used in American English - and it's not that common
in Irish English either.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan |
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David Picton
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Iller, illest - incorrect, or just unidiomatic? |
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Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
| Quote: | David Picton wrote:
John of Aix wrote:
David Picton wrote:
A Google Web survey suggests that "sicker/sickest" are indeed the
majority choice in the context of a group of patients. (N.B. the
quotes are part of the search string):
"iller|illest patients" 28
"sicker|sickest patients" 50,400
"sicklier|sickliest patients" 16
"more|most ill patients" 596
"more|most sick patients" 256
"more|most unwell patients" 30
"more|most sickly patients" 23
Since the normal use of "ill" is predicative not attributive, i.e. we
say "he's ill" but not usually "an ill patient", this isn't exactly a
good test of frequency of "iller" or "illest".
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Actually "ill" is very common as an attributive adjective:
"ill patients" 653,000
"sick patients" 68,500
However, there's an interesting detail. The word "ill" is almost
always preceded by an adverb such as "seriously", "terminally",
"chronically" etc. We don't often say "an ill patient" but we do say "a
terminally ill patient", and "terminally ill" is much more common than
"terminally sick".
| Quote: | I also have no doubt that "sick" is much more common than "ill" because
IIRC "ill" is rarely used in American English - and it's not that common
in Irish English either.
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It all depends on context... |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Iller, illest - incorrect, or just unidiomatic? |
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In article <1123686211.852034.225070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<n.murray@bathspa.ac.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | I feel as if I should put a third "l" in "illy" !
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That would be gilding the illy, silly!
--
http://www.dacha.freeuk.com/cook/20mc-0.htm
Making Curds |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Iller, illest - incorrect, or just unidiomatic? |
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Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
| Quote: | I also have no doubt that "sick" is much more common than "ill" because
IIRC "ill" is rarely used in American English - and it's not that common
in Irish English either.
Interestingly, however, the OED says that the adverbial form "illy" is |
(or was) "chiefly U.S." and gives some examples such as "I could illy
afford to lose it". A Google search for the phrase "illy afford"
brings up some 60 examples, and they all seem to be from American
documents from over 100 years ago. I suppose a modern British
equivalent would be "hardly afford" or "scarcely afford", but I do
sometimes hear "can ill afford" - but never "illy" !
I feel as if I should put a third "l" in "illy" !
Neil |
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Nick Wagg
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Iller, illest - incorrect, or just unidiomatic? |
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<n.murray@bathspa.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:1123686211.852034.225070@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
I also have no doubt that "sick" is much more common than "ill" because
IIRC "ill" is rarely used in American English - and it's not that common
in Irish English either.
Interestingly, however, the OED says that the adverbial form "illy" is
(or was) "chiefly U.S." and gives some examples such as "I could illy
afford to lose it". A Google search for the phrase "illy afford"
brings up some 60 examples, and they all seem to be from American
documents from over 100 years ago. I suppose a modern British
equivalent would be "hardly afford" or "scarcely afford", but I do
sometimes hear "can ill afford" - but never "illy" !
I feel as if I should put a third "l" in "illy" !
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In Stoke, we use "illy" to refer to the Peak District. |
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Iller, illest - incorrect, or just unidiomatic? |
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Nick Wagg wrote:
| Quote: | In Stoke, we use "illy" to refer to the Peak District.
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In the Peak District, we use "illy" to refer to a former Yorkshire
cricketer. Not with any great affection, mind you. |
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