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Message |
BCBD
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:25 pm
Post subject: help on "come to a fine pass" |
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Hi, all!
I am a non-English speaker who is trying hard to learn English. I want to
know this phrase "come to a fine pass" and I need you help since I can't
find it in my dictionary. Here are two examples I copied from the searching
results of Google.
1.¡°Things are come to a fine pass when one sister invites the other to her
house
o¡¯ purpose to quarrel with her and abuse her.¡±
2.So the old man called the young folks away from the pear-tree and went
grumbling
on, saying, that the world was come to a fine pass, indeed, when such as
they
set up for religion.
3. "This is a fine pass you've come to."
Could you help me please? Thanks a lot!
Best regards,
BCBD
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John of Aix
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:13 pm
Post subject: Re: help on "come to a fine pass" |
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BCBD wrote:
| Quote: | Hi, all!
I am a non-English speaker who is trying hard to learn English. I
want to know this phrase "come to a fine pass" and I need you help
since I can't find it in my dictionary. Here are two examples I
copied from the searching results of Google.
1.¡°Things are come to a fine pass when one sister invites the other
to her house
o¡¯ purpose to quarrel with her and abuse her.¡±
2.So the old man called the young folks away from the pear-tree and
went grumbling
on, saying, that the world was come to a fine pass, indeed, when such
as they
set up for religion.
3. "This is a fine pass you've come to."
Could you help me please? Thanks a lot!
|
What's the question ;-)
It means a similar thing to "a sorry state of affairs". So in the first
phrase you could have "It's a sorry state of affairs when one
sister....". Its an effect of opposition with the adjective 'fine' and
what the sense of the thig really is. I don't know where this turn of
phrase comes from though. |
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sum1
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:33 pm
Post subject: Re: help on "come to a fine pass" |
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bcbd@163.com wrote:
| Quote: | Hi, all!
I am a non-English speaker who is trying hard to learn English. I want to
know this phrase "come to a fine pass" and I need you help since I can't
find it in my dictionary. Here are two examples I copied from the searching
results of Google.
1.¡°Things are come to a fine pass when one sister invites the other to her
house
o¡¯ purpose to quarrel with her and abuse her.¡±
2.So the old man called the young folks away from the pear-tree and went
grumbling
on, saying, that the world was come to a fine pass, indeed, when such as
they
set up for religion.
3. "This is a fine pass you've come to."
Could you help me please? Thanks a lot!
Best regards,
BCBD
It's not used too frequently these days, I'd think. |
It is also expressed as "Things have come to a pretty pass
when ....(insert grumble)"
It just means, 'What are things coming to. . , a lament for the
good Old Days etc. ' '
--
Ian
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BCBD
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:04 am
Post subject: Re: help on "come to a fine pass" |
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| Thank you, John of Aix! |
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John of Aix
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:28 pm
Post subject: Re: help on "come to a fine pass" |
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BCBD wrote:
| Quote: | Thank you, John of Aix!
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You're welcome, we're here for that. |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:04 am
Post subject: Re: help on "come to a fine pass" |
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On Sat, 9 Jul 2005 12:13:41 +0200, "John of Aix"
<j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> wrote:
| Quote: | It means a similar thing to "a sorry state of affairs". So in the first
phrase you could have "It's a sorry state of affairs when one
sister....". Its an effect of opposition with the adjective 'fine' and
what the sense of the thig really is. I don't know where this turn of
phrase comes from though.
|
I wonder if it's a jocular distortion of the Biblical "it came to
pass"(?)
--
Phil C. |
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Giles Todd
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:22 am
Post subject: Re: help on "come to a fine pass" |
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On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:28:08 +0200, "John of Aix"
<j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> wrote:
| Quote: | BCBD wrote:
Thank you, John of Aix!
You're welcome, we're here for that.
|
Speak for yourself. I am here to make snide remarks and juvenile
comments about spelling mistakes.
Giles
--
It's a tough job, but someone has to do it. |
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John of Aix
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:08 am
Post subject: Re: help on "come to a fine pass" |
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Giles Todd wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:28:08 +0200, "John of Aix"
j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> wrote:
BCBD wrote:
Thank you, John of Aix!
You're welcome, we're here for that.
Speak for yourself. I am here to make snide remarks and juvenile
comments about spelling mistakes.
|
Well that too obviously, Usenet is Usenet after all.
Any idea where 'come to a fine/pretty pass' comes form Giles, erudite
fellow that you are? Sounds liek Shalespeare to me (always a good guess
if in doubt). |
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John Hall
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:53 am
Post subject: Re: help on "come to a fine pass" |
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In article <42d4185a$0$22292$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>,
John of Aix <j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> writes:
| Quote: | Giles Todd wrote:
Speak for yourself. I am here to make snide remarks and juvenile
comments about spelling mistakes.
Well that too obviously, Usenet is Usenet after all.
Any idea where 'come to a fine/pretty pass' comes form Giles, erudite
fellow that you are? Sounds liek Shalespeare to me (always a good guess
if in doubt).
|
Kind of you to give him a couple of opportunities for juvenile comments.
--
John Hall
"One half of the world cannot understand
the pleasures of the other."
From "Emma" by Jane Austen (1775-1817) |
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Giles Todd
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 4:01 am
Post subject: Re: help on "come to a fine pass" |
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On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 21:08:40 +0200, "John of Aix"
<j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> wrote:
| Quote: | Any idea where 'come to a fine/pretty pass' comes form Giles, erudite
fellow that you are? Sounds liek Shalespeare to me (always a good guess
if in doubt).
|
Here you go:
7. a. A position or situation in the course of any affair; esp. a
position, qualified in some way; a critical position, a juncture, a
predicament. Also phr. (to come to) a pretty pass, (to reach) a
regrettable state of affairs.
Cf. F. être en belle passe, dans une mauvaise passe, etc.: see
Littré, Passe 5. But in Eng. app. sometimes associated with pass n.1
as if a fig. use of sense 3a.
1560 J. Daus tr. Sleidane's Comm. 58 Yet all thynges lyke to come
to suche a passe. 1581 G. Pettie tr. Guazzo's Civ. Conv. ii. (1586)
49b, The worlde is come to this passe, that it counteth anie thing to
bee lawfull which is delightfull. 1596 Spenser F.Q. vi. iii. 14 Him
seemed fit that wounded Knight To visite, after this nights perillous
passe. 1596 Shakes. Tam. Shr. v. ii. 124 Lord let me neuer haue a
cause to sigh, Till I be brought to such a sillie passe. 1610 R.
Abbot Old Way 27 To that desperate passe they are brought by the
writings of the authors. 1732 Law Serious C. iv. (ed. 2) 66 To such
a pass are we now come. 1822 Shelley Triumph Life 302 How and by
what paths I have been brought To this dread pass. 1833 H. Martineau
Fr. Wines & Pol. vi. 98 Where is the patriotism of bringing things to
this pass? 1842 [see pretty a. 3c]. 1843 Dickens Mart. Chuz.
(1844) xiv. 178, I need be departing, with all speed, for another
country; for I have come to a pretty pass in this! 1876 H. Melville
Clarel II. iv. xvi. 501 ‘Was ever Saracen so bold!’ ‘Well, things
have come to pretty pass—The mysteries slobbered by an ass!’ 1894 C.
N. Robinson Brit. Fleet 9 Neglecting, at this critical pass, to
secure the maritime approaches to his realm. 1909 Dialect Notes III.
359 Pretty pass,+a peculiar or astounding situation, as abnormal
condition: used in derogatory sense. 1955 Times 5 Aug. 10/4 Things,
one felt, must have reached a pretty pass if the big banks, or any
one of the big banks, had run into the same squalid staffing problems
as the National Coal Board or the chain groceries. 1970 Brewer's
Dict. Phr. & Fable (rev. ed.) 808/1 A pretty pass, a difficult or
deplorable state of affairs.
Giles |
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:44 pm
Post subject: Re: help on "come to a fine pass" |
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John of Aix wrote:
| Quote: | Any idea where 'come to a fine/pretty pass' comes form Giles, erudite
fellow that you are? Sounds liek Shalespeare to me (always a good guess
if in doubt).
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In my opinion, we've come to a pretty pass now that the Trough of
Bowland has been made access land.
Paul Burke |
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John of Aix
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:00 am
Post subject: Re: help on "come to a fine pass" |
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Giles Todd wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 21:08:40 +0200, "John of Aix"
j.murphy@libertysurf.fr> wrote:
Any idea where 'come to a fine/pretty pass' comes form Giles, erudite
fellow that you are? Sounds liek Shalespeare to me (always a good
guess if in doubt).
Here you go:
7. a. A position or situation in the course of any affair; esp. a
position, qualified in some way; a critical position, a juncture, a
predicament. Also phr. (to come to) a pretty pass, (to reach) a
regrettable state of affairs.
Cf. F. être en belle passe, dans une mauvaise passe, etc.: see
Littré, Passe 5. But in Eng. app. sometimes associated with pass n.1
as if a fig. use of sense 3a.
|
The 'pass(age)' is simple enough, it is this odd way of putting an
opposing adjective with it from the point of view of its real senes,
pretty/fine pass, that is peculiar. This sort of thing has a name in
English
but I can't remember it. |
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