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Pete
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 10:53 pm
Post subject: tense after "as if" |
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Hi everybody!
What is the correct tense after "as if"?
Examples:
It feels as if it were cold.
It feels as if it was cold.
Thanks for your help!
Pete
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meirman
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 10:53 pm
Post subject: Re: tense after "as if" |
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In alt.english.usage on Wed, 25 May 2005 18:53:01 +0200 "Pete"
<wolffpeter@t-online.de> posted:
| Quote: | Hi everybody!
What is the correct tense after "as if"?
Examples:
It feels as if it were cold.
It feels as if it was cold.
|
I'll let others answer the question. I just want to say that this is a
bad example, because all you need say is "It feels cold". Unless some
sort of temperature-hypnosis is involved, this is one thing we don't
have to guess at.
| Quote: | Thanks for your help!
Pete
|
s/ meirman
Posting from alt.english.usage
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If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Town NW of Pittsburgh Pa. 0 to 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
now in Baltimore 22 years |
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Pete
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 11:29 pm
Post subject: Re: tense after "as if" |
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The idea was that something that obviously isn't cold feels as if it were/is
cold.
"When you touch this object its surface feels as if it were/is cold."
Better?
"meirman" <meirman@invalid.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4ab991tq7juth3j83ng60v9h5tg5ooq4ij@4ax.com...
| Quote: | In alt.english.usage on Wed, 25 May 2005 18:53:01 +0200 "Pete"
wolffpeter@t-online.de> posted:
Hi everybody!
What is the correct tense after "as if"?
Examples:
It feels as if it were cold.
It feels as if it was cold.
I'll let others answer the question. I just want to say that this is a
bad example, because all you need say is "It feels cold". Unless some
sort of temperature-hypnosis is involved, this is one thing we don't
have to guess at.
Thanks for your help!
Pete
s/ meirman
Posting from alt.english.usage
--
If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Town NW of Pittsburgh Pa. 0 to 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
now in Baltimore 22 years |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 11:30 pm
Post subject: Re: tense after "as if" |
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"meirman" <meirman@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:4ab991tq7juth3j83ng60v9h5tg5ooq4ij@4ax.com...
| Quote: | In alt.english.usage on Wed, 25 May 2005 18:53:01 +0200 "Pete"
wolffpeter@t-online.de> posted:
Hi everybody!
What is the correct tense after "as if"?
Examples:
It feels as if it were cold.
It feels as if it was cold.
I'll let others answer the question. I just want to say that this is a
bad example, because all you need say is "It feels cold". Unless some
sort of temperature-hypnosis is involved, this is one thing we don't
have to guess at.
|
I am so glad you posted this so concisely. I agree that another example
would serve better. |
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Joanne Marinelli
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 11:35 pm
Post subject: Re: tense after "as if" |
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"meirman" <meirman@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:4ab991tq7juth3j83ng60v9h5tg5ooq4ij@4ax.com...
| Quote: | In alt.english.usage on Wed, 25 May 2005 18:53:01 +0200 "Pete"
wolffpeter@t-online.de> posted:
Hi everybody!
What is the correct tense after "as if"?
Examples:
It feels as if it were cold.
It feels as if it was cold.
I'll let others answer the question. I just want to say that this is a
bad example, because all you need say is "It feels cold". Unless some
sort of temperature-hypnosis is involved, this is one thing we don't
have to guess at.
Thanks for your help!
Pete
To follow up on meirman's objection, you do not want to confuse the |
subjunctive mood in English with the indicative mood. See if Bartleby helps
you here:
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/061.html
When we're dealing with weather conditions in the present, it either is cold
or it isn't Pete. One doesn't use a conditional "as if".
Joanne |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 3:26 am
Post subject: Re: tense after "as if" |
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 17:35:11 GMT, "Joanne Marinelli"
<Jozanny@yahoo.com> said:
| Quote: | "meirman" <meirman@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:4ab991tq7juth3j83ng60v9h5tg5ooq4ij@4ax.com...
In alt.english.usage on Wed, 25 May 2005 18:53:01 +0200 "Pete"
wolffpeter@t-online.de> posted:
Hi everybody!
What is the correct tense after "as if"?
Examples:
It feels as if it were cold.
It feels as if it was cold.
I'll let others answer the question. I just want to say that this is a
bad example, because all you need say is "It feels cold". Unless some
sort of temperature-hypnosis is involved, this is one thing we don't
have to guess at.
To follow up on meirman's objection, you do not want to confuse the
subjunctive mood in English with the indicative mood. See if Bartleby helps
you here:
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/061.html
When we're dealing with weather conditions in the present, it either is cold
or it isn't Pete. One doesn't use a conditional "as if".
|
I think the other responders in this thread have overlooked
a reasonable possibility. One way to see if a material is a
good conductor of heat is to feel it. If it feels cold to
the touch, that means it's conducting heat away from your
fingers and therefore is a good conductor of heat. The
material can be at room temperature and still feel cold.
I had a practical application of that years ago. Someone
gave me a piece of beryllia with the suggestion that we
consider it for an engineering application we were working
on. Chatting about it with a colleague, I mentioned that
for our application the material we chose would have to be a
good conductor of heat, and I wondered if that was true of
beryllia. He said, "For a first cut, feel it: It has been
at room temperature all day; if it feels cold, it's a good
conductor of heat".
I could have said of the beryllia, "It feels as if it were
cold", because its being cold was contrary to fact.
If I have a material whose surface exhibits a
characteristic, permanent deformation of some sort when
subjected to freezing temperature, and if I feel the
material and sense the deformation after the material has
returned to room temperature, then I can correctly say "It
feels as if it was cold". That it was cold is not
necessarily contrary to fact, so the indicative is
indicated. |
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meirman
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 7:03 am
Post subject: Re: tense after "as if" |
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In alt.english.usage on Wed, 25 May 2005 21:26:54 GMT Bob Cunningham
<exw6sxq@earthlink.net> posted:
| Quote: |
I could have said of the beryllia, "It feels as if it were
cold", because its being cold was contrary to fact.
|
OK, you win. 
s/ meirman
Posting from alt.english.usage
--
If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Town NW of Pittsburgh Pa. 0 to 10 years
Indianapolis 7 years
Chicago 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
now in Baltimore 22 years |
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Pete
Guest
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 4:19 pm
Post subject: Re: tense after "as if" |
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Am I getting something wrong here? I never wrote anything whatsoever about
weather conditions in the first place! After all, there are two or three
other things that can be cold besides the weather.
"Bob Cunningham" <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:lmq991ppo4stfbq54575mc2nt8ftvv7ua1@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Wed, 25 May 2005 17:35:11 GMT, "Joanne Marinelli"
Jozanny@yahoo.com> said:
"meirman" <meirman@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:4ab991tq7juth3j83ng60v9h5tg5ooq4ij@4ax.com...
In alt.english.usage on Wed, 25 May 2005 18:53:01 +0200 "Pete"
wolffpeter@t-online.de> posted:
Hi everybody!
What is the correct tense after "as if"?
Examples:
It feels as if it were cold.
It feels as if it was cold.
I'll let others answer the question. I just want to say that this is a
bad example, because all you need say is "It feels cold". Unless some
sort of temperature-hypnosis is involved, this is one thing we don't
have to guess at.
To follow up on meirman's objection, you do not want to confuse the
subjunctive mood in English with the indicative mood. See if Bartleby
helps
you here:
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/061.html
When we're dealing with weather conditions in the present, it either is
cold
or it isn't Pete. One doesn't use a conditional "as if".
I think the other responders in this thread have overlooked
a reasonable possibility. One way to see if a material is a
good conductor of heat is to feel it. If it feels cold to
the touch, that means it's conducting heat away from your
fingers and therefore is a good conductor of heat. The
material can be at room temperature and still feel cold.
I had a practical application of that years ago. Someone
gave me a piece of beryllia with the suggestion that we
consider it for an engineering application we were working
on. Chatting about it with a colleague, I mentioned that
for our application the material we chose would have to be a
good conductor of heat, and I wondered if that was true of
beryllia. He said, "For a first cut, feel it: It has been
at room temperature all day; if it feels cold, it's a good
conductor of heat".
I could have said of the beryllia, "It feels as if it were
cold", because its being cold was contrary to fact.
If I have a material whose surface exhibits a
characteristic, permanent deformation of some sort when
subjected to freezing temperature, and if I feel the
material and sense the deformation after the material has
returned to room temperature, then I can correctly say "It
feels as if it was cold". That it was cold is not
necessarily contrary to fact, so the indicative is
indicated.
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Scout
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 2:47 pm
Post subject: Re: tense after "as if" |
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"Pete" <wolffpeter@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:d747op$d96$00$1@news.t-online.com...
| Quote: | Am I getting something wrong here? I never wrote anything whatsoever about
weather conditions in the first place! After all, there are two or three
other things that can be cold besides the weather.
Examples:
It feels as if it were cold.
It feels as if it was cold.
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If it feels cold, it probably was cold. So, I'd use 'was' in this otherwise
awkward sentence.
Scout |
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Cymraes
Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Fri May 27, 2005 9:31 pm
Post subject: |
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If one is into prescriptive grammar , one should say 'if it WERE cold' . This seemingly unusual use of the verb underlines the non-reality of the situation . We are in a world of hypotheses and dreams . Similarly , one says 'if I were you' . I can never be you , and I show you that in my verbal construction . The French call this 'le prétérit iréel ' .
This use of "were" instead of "was" after "if" indicates distance , dreams , wishes , impossibility ..... Having said that , in ordinary spoken language one could still say " if it was hot , I'd wear that T shirt " , the idea being that it is not a mad thought to think about wearing a T shirt . It's the summer , but just a bit cold today .
Descriptive grammar is always as nuanced as prescriptive grammar .
Cymraes . |
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StrayShots
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 7:04 am
Post subject: Re: tense after "as if" |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: | Someone gave me a piece of beryllia
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beryllia = plural of beryllium??
--
"With my cross-bow
I shot the Albatross." |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 7:04 am
Post subject: beryllia [wasa: Re: tense after "as if"] |
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On 28 May 2005 20:09:54 -0700, "StrayShots"
<StrayShots@hotmail.com> said:
| Quote: | Bob Cunningham wrote:
Someone gave me a piece of beryllia
beryllia = plural of beryllium??
|
No. Beryllia is (from the _New Shorter Oxford English
Dictionary):
beryllium oxide, BeO, a white refractory solid
I have a vague memory from the 1950s about beryllia being
bad in some way, like maybe it was a carcinogen.
--
Bob Cunningham, Southern California, USofA
Down with Miss Thistlebottom:
Let's hear it for "like" as a conjunction! |
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Daniel James
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 29, 2005 5:39 pm
Post subject: Re: tense after "as if" |
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In article news:<d72af4$g20$00$1@news.t-online.com>, Pete wrote:
| Quote: | Examples:
It feels as if it were cold.
It feels as if it was cold.
|
This continues to rankle ... There *are* answers to this.
First, the question seems very artificial -- you're unlikely to enocunter
that sort of "as if" construction in the present tense. It's much more
common in the past.
However:
1. "It is cold" means that it's cold.
2. "It feels cold" means that it's cold, and you can feel it.
3. "It feels as if it is cold" means that it feels cold, but might not
be (perhaps said of damp weather feeling colder than it is). As I
indicated above, this isn't the sort of thing one often has occasion to
say. Maybe in "it feels as if it is cold, but the thermometer says
otherwise ... I expect the thermometer is broken."
4. "It feels as if it was cold" means that it isn't cold now, but feels
as though it have been until recently. (E.g. some thing has now warmed
up, but there is still condensation on it).
5. "It feels as if it were cold" sounds ungrammatical and wrong to me. I
don't expect to find this use of "were" with "feels" in the present
tense.
However, "it felt as if it were cold" is perfectly fine, and is
more-or-less the past tense form of 3 above, except that there's a
stronger suggestion of the feeling being false -- "It felt as if it were
cold, but the ice on the lake was starting to melt."
Cheers,
Daniel. |
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