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Larry G
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 11:28 pm
Post subject: Intrusive "R" in coastal South |
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I was watching "Paula's Home Cooking" the other day on the Food Channel, and
when she said the word "spatula", she ended it with an "r", like a Boston or
New York "r", "spatulur".
I'd never heard this in a Southern accent before. (I know there's more than
one). Is it something peculiar to the coast? I'm not sure if this is
technically "intrusive", but she definitely ended the word with it.
And, she has a very, very Southern accent.
Larry |
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Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 12:38 am
Post subject: Re: Intrusive "R" in coastal South |
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My dad pronounces "area" with an ending r. My mother-in-law says
"Linder" for Linda as well as pronouncing other words ending in 'a' the
same way. Can't say that I hear it often elsewhere in the South. |
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Armond Perretta
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 2:04 am
Post subject: Re: Intrusive "R" in coastal South |
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Larry G wrote:
| Quote: | I was watching "Paula's Home Cooking" the other day on the Food
Channel, and when she said the word "spatula", she ended it with an
"r", like a Boston or New York "r", "spatulur".
I'd never heard this in a Southern accent before. (I know there's
more than one). Is it something peculiar to the coast? I'm not sure
if this is technically "intrusive", but she definitely ended the
word with it.
And, she has a very, very Southern accent.
|
I met Paula years ago in Savannah when she was still just "plain folks."
She sat with us for over an hour and discussed whatever was on her mind.
It's possible that hanging around with the fancy people on TV may have
corrupted at least some of her innate goodness accent-wise.
--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net |
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Areff
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 7:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Intrusive "R" in coastal South |
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Don Phillipson wrote:
| Quote: | "Larry G" <thelarry_g3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42878783_1@x-privat.org...
I was watching "Paula's Home Cooking" the other day on the Food Channel,
and
when she said the word "spatula", she ended it with an "r", like a Boston
or
New York "r", "spatulur". . . .
Is it something peculiar to the coast?
Probably not. A useful test for pronunciation is
"western." Very nearly all N.Americans (from
Newfoundland to California) sound an audible R in
this word.
|
I wouldn't say "very nearly all". The non-rhotic speakers of places like
New York (WAIITLCIA) and Boston do not pronounce an audible 'R'. (It's
different for a word like "tern", where the "er" is stressed -- nowadays
most "non-rhotic" speakers in the US will pronounce such words rhotically,
though there are a few exceptions, such as former New Jersey Governor Tom
Kean and John McLaughlin of TV's "The McLaughlin Group".) |
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Larry G
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 9:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Intrusive "R" in coastal South |
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"Armond Perretta" <newsgroupreader@REMOVEcomcast.net> wrote in message ...
| Quote: | I met Paula years ago in Savannah when she was still just "plain folks."
She sat with us for over an hour and discussed whatever was on her mind.
It's possible that hanging around with the fancy people on TV may have
corrupted at least some of her innate goodness accent-wise.
|
Hehe, well I really enjoy the show. I'm hoping if I ever visit Savannah one
day, she has a restaurant or something open to the public. She reminds me of
my mom's side of the family, who are from the South.
Her "R" intrigued me because I wonder if its not a relic of colonial times
since Savannah is coastal and there's no reason to think it wouldn't share
characteristics of more Northern cities like New York or Boston.
It seemed genuine enough, flowed along with the rest of her speech. (I loved
Southern accents). If it was acquired, I can see that as well. If I'm
watching a movie with British characters, that's the one feature that
naturally makes its way into my own speech for a while after seeing that
movie or talking to people with that accent.
Larry |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 11:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Intrusive "R" in coastal South |
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"Larry G" <thelarry_g3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42878783_1@x-privat.org...
| Quote: | I was watching "Paula's Home Cooking" the other day on the Food Channel,
and
when she said the word "spatula", she ended it with an "r", like a Boston
or
New York "r", "spatulur". . . .
Is it something peculiar to the coast?
|
Probably not. A useful test for pronunciation is
"western." Very nearly all N.Americans (from
Newfoundland to California) sound an audible R in
this word. Next to no British EFL speakers do.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Larry G
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 5:27 am
Post subject: Re: Intrusive "R" in coastal South |
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"Don Phillipson" <d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote in message ...
| Quote: | "Larry G" <thelarry_g3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42878783_1@x-privat.org...
I was watching "Paula's Home Cooking" the other day on the Food Channel,
and
when she said the word "spatula", she ended it with an "r", like a Boston
or
New York "r", "spatulur". . . .
Is it something peculiar to the coast?
Probably not. A useful test for pronunciation is
"western." Very nearly all N.Americans (from
Newfoundland to California) sound an audible R in
this word. Next to no British EFL speakers do.
|
Huh? I'm a General American English speaker (Southern California), not all
that different from Canadian broadcast Peter Mansbridge-style English, but
without the "oat" and "aboat", rhotic, and yes I pronounce the "r" in
"western".
But, I was talking about a word *without* an "r" as in "spatula". Paula, who
is from Savannah, Georgia, placed an "r" at the end of this word, like a
non-rhotic speaker from Boston would over correct with a word like "idea"
saying "ide-er". Not elongating an "a" as in British RP, but like a pirate
"arrrrgh, matey" <g>. I had never heard a Southern speaker hypercorrect an
"r"-less word before. Previously, I'd only heard it in the speech of the
Northeast like in Boston or New York.
I will say, however, that this hypercorrection, or intrusive/linking "r" (I
know these are different, but related) is one part of speech that is easy
acquired if I hear it enough in British film or films where it is spoken.
Larry |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 17, 2005 6:08 am
Post subject: Re: Intrusive "R" in coastal South |
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Larry G <thelarry_g3@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Larry G" <thelarry_g3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42878783_1@x-privat.org...
I was watching "Paula's Home Cooking" the other day on the Food
Channel, and > when she said the word "spatula", she ended it with an
"r", like a Boston or > New York "r", "spatulur". . . .
Is it something peculiar to the coast?
|
I don't know enough about Southern accents to know, either. Might be.
I've heard "drore" for "draw" in Southern Appalachian accents.
[snip]
| Quote: |
But, I was talking about a word *without* an "r" as in "spatula". Paula, who
is from Savannah, Georgia, placed an "r" at the end of this word, like a
non-rhotic speaker from Boston would over correct with a word like "idea"
saying "ide-er". Not elongating an "a" as in British RP, but like a pirate
"arrrrgh, matey" <g>. I had never heard a Southern speaker hypercorrect an
"r"-less word before. Previously, I'd only heard it in the speech of the
Northeast like in Boston or New York.
I will say, however, that this hypercorrection, or intrusive/linking "r" (I
know these are different, but related) is one part of speech that is easy
acquired if I hear it enough in British film or films where it is spoken.
|
You mention the concept "intrusive/linking" but you don't say anything
about the words following. Are you actually hearing things like:
I need that spatular.
That's a spatular.
where it's at the end of a sentence? Or is it followed by a vowel, the
normal pattern:
the spatular on the table
the spatular in the drawer
the spatular is under the plate
I think it was Ben Zimmer who gave an example not long ago of someone
from New York putting Rs at the ends of words ("arena" was one, I think)
even when there was no discernable vowel following. It makes sense to me
that someone who grew up hearing linking Rs might fail to grasp the
entire rule and put them "wrong" places. Maybe we're hearing a new
trend.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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Larry G
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 3:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Intrusive "R" in coastal South |
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"Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote in message ...
| Quote: | You mention the concept "intrusive/linking" but you don't say anything
about the words following. Are you actually hearing things like:
I need that spatular.
That's a spatular.
|
Yes. Much like an "r"-ending word without a vowel following as in Boston,
for example "ide-er". I just mentioned "linking r" because I think it's a
hypercorrection based upon that.
| Quote: | where it's at the end of a sentence? Or is it followed by a vowel, the
normal pattern:
the spatular on the table
the spatular in the drawer
the spatular is under the plate
I think it was Ben Zimmer who gave an example not long ago of someone
from New York putting Rs at the ends of words ("arena" was one, I think)
even when there was no discernable vowel following. It makes sense to me
that someone who grew up hearing linking Rs might fail to grasp the
entire rule and put them "wrong" places. Maybe we're hearing a new
trend.
|
It is interesting. That "linking r" thing is the one thing I will take into
my own speech if I hear enough of it from a British or Northeastern
(American) speaker, even though it's not a part of my own speech. Of course,
my own accent probably has a few pecularities given the fact that I grew up
with my grandma (raised in Texas and Mississippi, but claimed she didn't
have an accent <g>), and her New England neighbor (from New Hampshire and
Massachusetts). Plus the influence of Canadian speakers (mainly from Ontario
and British Columbia) visiting from the winter.
So, given all of that, I probably have features in my Southern California
speech from the South, New England, and Canada, not to mention Mexico, Okie,
etc. Given all of that, I have your average General American accent, but it
is different slightly from regular Southern California speech in a few ways,
and I never adopted (seriously anyway) the stereotypical "valley" speech. My
accent was probably a lot closer to Southern when I was younger due to my
grandma's influence.
Larry |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Intrusive "R" in coastal South |
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"Larry G" <thelarry_g3@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42878783_1@x-privat.org...
| Quote: | I was watching "Paula's Home Cooking" the other day on the Food Channel,
and
when she said the word "spatula", she ended it with an "r", like a Boston
or
New York "r", "spatulur".
|
I commented on Paula's pronunciation of this very word on March 16.
(Of course, I didn't spell the word for her pronunciation as you did, and I
won't spell it my way now, for fear that the same person will find it
exceptional that I don't use the IPA characters, among other things in my
post that displeased him.)
I do wonder, though, if you are referring to the same program that I
commented upon. I confess to not recalling what was cooking. I only
mentioned Dean's "spatula" pronunciation as a subtopic to the main OP topic
of her use of "lest". (I mentioned that she used "least" for "lest".) |
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Armond Perretta
Guest
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| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 12:12 am
Post subject: Re: Intrusive "R" in coastal South |
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Larry G wrote:
| Quote: | "Armond Perretta" <newsgroupreader@REMOVEcomcast.net> wrote in
message ...
I met Paula years ago in Savannah when she was still just "plain
folks." She sat with us for over an hour and discussed whatever
was on her mind. It's possible that hanging around with the fancy
people on TV may have corrupted at least some of her innate
goodness accent-wise.
Hehe, well I really enjoy the show. I'm hoping if I ever visit
Savannah one day, she has a restaurant or something open to the
public. She reminds me of my mom's side of the family, who are from
the South.
|
The restaurant is (or was) "Lady and Sons." It is (or was) a buffet, and I
had a bit to do to convince my wife to enter.
We have never regretted the choice.
--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net |
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