| Author |
Message |
Mike Barnes
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:16 pm
Post subject: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
"That's not the way we talk" is the headline above an article printed on
today's _Guardian_ (British newspaper), reprinted from the LA Times. See
the original at
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kenny22mar22,0,2
498777.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
The author complains about the way British English is influencing
American English. Targets include "send up", "spot on", "sacked", and
"queue up". But he saves most of his indignation for "went missing".
The headline-writers at The Guardian wrote "It's ruining the language",
which seems to exaggerate the professor's position on the matter,
perhaps in a lame attempt to swell the post bag.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
CyberCypher
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:47 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
Mike Barnes wrote on 08 Apr 2005:
No, the original is not there. Well, it's there, but it's in the
archivies that one is required to pay for. March 22, 2005. That's more
than 2 weeks ago. You should have provided the Grauniad link. Very few
online newspapers allow online viewing of anything older than one week
without payment of a fee.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
"Ain't been no peace in the barnyard since my little red rooster Saddam
been gone." Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CyberCypher
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:54 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
Mike Barnes wrote on 08 Apr 2005:
Ooops. I found it. The problem is this blasted giant two-line link. Try
a Tiny URL next time.
The LA Times commentary is titled "We're Gobsmacked by Another British
Invasion"
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
"Ain't been no peace in the barnyard since my little red rooster Saddam
been gone." Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David Wright Sr.
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:55 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
Mike Barnes <april2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in
news:7rHOaujEApVCFwPi@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid:
(snip)
Try this one: http://tinyurl.com/6bmkk
--
David Wright Sr.
If you haven't joined The Heinlein Society, Why Not?
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
The Heinlein Estate is again matching new member
registrations and fund raising up to $15,000
Make your new membership count twice! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ida Goode-Johnson
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:26 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
"Mike Barnes" <april2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aYS2GXbTvkVCFw41@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid...
| Quote: | "That's not the way we talk" is the headline above an article printed on
today's _Guardian_ (British newspaper), reprinted from the LA Times. See
the original at
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kenny22mar22,0,2
498777.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
The author complains about the way British English is influencing
American English. Targets include "send up", "spot on", "sacked", and
"queue up". But he saves most of his indignation for "went missing".
The headline-writers at The Guardian wrote "It's ruining the language",
which seems to exaggerate the professor's position on the matter,
perhaps in a lame attempt to swell the post bag.
|
Goose, gander, sauce.
Ida "Goose"-Johnson |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spehro Pefhany
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:33 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:16:03 +0100, the renowned Mike Barnes
<april2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | "That's not the way we talk" is the headline above an article printed on
today's _Guardian_ (British newspaper), reprinted from the LA Times. See
the original at
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kenny22mar22,0,2
498777.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
The author complains about the way British English is influencing
American English. Targets include "send up", "spot on", "sacked", and
"queue up". But he saves most of his indignation for "went missing".
The headline-writers at The Guardian wrote "It's ruining the language",
which seems to exaggerate the professor's position on the matter,
perhaps in a lame attempt to swell the post bag.
|
Brilliant. Perhaps The Guardian could start a letter-writing campaign
straightaway to introduce Americans living outside the Northeast to
superior British expressions.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Donna Richoux
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:06 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
Mike Barnes <april2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
(That's not clickable for me, because of the middle indent. I offer
this, which may not work either:)
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kenny22mar22,0,2
498777.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
| Quote: |
The author complains about the way British English is influencing
American English. Targets include "send up", "spot on", "sacked", and
"queue up". But he saves most of his indignation for "went missing".
The headline-writers at The Guardian wrote "It's ruining the language",
which seems to exaggerate the professor's position on the matter,
perhaps in a lame attempt to swell the post bag.
|
Yeah, and I'd even say that to use the words "complains" and
"indignation" is a bit of overstatement, too. I don't see the kind of
frenzied emotion that is common to US feature articles. It seems pretty
low-key and supplies considerable detail in the figures.
It's an interesting topic; all of my life, I've been aware of a strong
cultural reluctance on the part of Americans to adopt British slang and
sayings. So when the odd useful one comes along, I feel like I'm almost
betraying my country by saying it, besides sounding pompous and all
that. Of those mentioned, "spot on" is the only one I can remember being
tempted to say, and I don't remember if I gave in.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Donna Richoux
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:15 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:16:03 +0100, the renowned Mike Barnes
april2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
"That's not the way we talk" is the headline above an article printed on
today's _Guardian_ (British newspaper), reprinted from the LA Times. See
the original at
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kenny22mar22,0,2
498777.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
The author complains about the way British English is influencing
American English. Targets include "send up", "spot on", "sacked", and
"queue up". But he saves most of his indignation for "went missing".
The headline-writers at The Guardian wrote "It's ruining the language",
which seems to exaggerate the professor's position on the matter,
perhaps in a lame attempt to swell the post bag.
Brilliant. Perhaps The Guardian could start a letter-writing campaign
straightaway to introduce Americans living outside the Northeast to
superior British expressions.
|
Hey, yeah! I know some people in Ohio who would just love to be told how
to talk betterly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adrian Bailey
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:19 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
"Mike Barnes" <april2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aYS2GXbTvkVCFw41@34klh41lk4h1lk34h3lk4h1k4.invalid...
| Quote: | "That's not the way we talk" is the headline above an article printed on
today's _Guardian_ (British newspaper), reprinted from the LA Times. See
the original at
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kenny22mar22,0,2
498777.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
The author complains about the way British English is influencing
American English. Targets include "send up", "spot on", "sacked", and
"queue up". But he saves most of his indignation for "went missing".
The headline-writers at The Guardian wrote "It's ruining the language",
which seems to exaggerate the professor's position on the matter,
perhaps in a lame attempt to swell the post bag.
|
It might've been better if Mr Kenny had betrayed** even the merest hint of
irony in his musings.
His statistic-quoting, fact-checking article is the kind of "journalism"
that makes so many American non-fiction books so turgid to read.
**I hope you'll agree that I've used "betray" more appropriately than Mr K
did.
Adrian |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ida Goode-Johnson
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
"Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1gupdzr.1fmev2hudykfxN%trio@euronet.nl...
| Quote: | Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:16:03 +0100, the renowned Mike Barnes
april2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
"That's not the way we talk" is the headline above an article printed on
today's _Guardian_ (British newspaper), reprinted from the LA Times. See
the original at
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kenny22mar22,0,2
498777.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
The author complains about the way British English is influencing
American English. Targets include "send up", "spot on", "sacked", and
"queue up". But he saves most of his indignation for "went missing".
The headline-writers at The Guardian wrote "It's ruining the language",
which seems to exaggerate the professor's position on the matter,
perhaps in a lame attempt to swell the post bag.
Brilliant. Perhaps The Guardian could start a letter-writing campaign
straightaway to introduce Americans living outside the Northeast to
superior British expressions.
Hey, yeah! I know some people in Ohio who would just love to be told how
to talk betterly. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ida Goode-Johnson
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 6:23 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
"Donna Richoux" <trio@euronet.nl> wrote in message
news:1gupdzr.1fmev2hudykfxN%trio@euronet.nl...
| Quote: | Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:16:03 +0100, the renowned Mike Barnes
april2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
The headline-writers at The Guardian wrote "It's ruining the language",
which seems to exaggerate the professor's position on the matter,
perhaps in a lame attempt to swell the post bag.
Brilliant. Perhaps The Guardian could start a letter-writing campaign
straightaway to introduce Americans living outside the Northeast to
superior British expressions.
Hey, yeah! I know some people in Ohio who would just love to be told how
to talk betterly.
|
Well they certainly responded to the campaign to get them to vote betterly
(or am I stating the obvious?)!
Ida Goode-Johnson |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike Barnes
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:07 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
In alt.usage.english, Donna Richoux wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Barnes <april2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
"That's not the way we talk" is the headline above an article printed on
today's _Guardian_ (British newspaper), reprinted from the LA Times. See
the original at
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kenny22mar22,0,2
498777.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
(That's not clickable for me, because of the middle indent. I offer
this, which may not work either:)
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kenny22mar22,0,2
498777.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
The author complains about the way British English is influencing
American English. Targets include "send up", "spot on", "sacked", and
"queue up". But he saves most of his indignation for "went missing".
The headline-writers at The Guardian wrote "It's ruining the language",
which seems to exaggerate the professor's position on the matter,
perhaps in a lame attempt to swell the post bag.
Yeah, and I'd even say that to use the words "complains" and
"indignation" is a bit of overstatement, too.
|
Possibly, but nowhere does he speak positively, and he does say:
"...a virus that's infecting American media..."
"...betraying perfectly good American idioms..."
"...avoiding the perfectly good American..."
"...that's not the way we talk in this country..."
| Quote: | [...]
It's an interesting topic; all of my life, I've been aware of a strong
cultural reluctance on the part of Americans to adopt British slang and
sayings. So when the odd useful one comes along, I feel like I'm almost
betraying my country by saying it, besides sounding pompous and all that.
|
Is it just Britishisms that meet such resistance? Are there enough
Canadianisms, Australianisms, etc, to judge?
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David Wright Sr.
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:48 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
trio@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote in news:1guptwt.1ys2i4d1q1qrrN%
trio@euronet.nl:
(snip)
| Quote: |
I've been trying to think of any passages from literature about people
and their accents/dialects, and others' opinion of them. My thought that
looking at examples from famous literature might give us some shared
starting points, a handle, something to talk about in common besides
just swapping anecdotes and speculation...
In his novel, _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_, Robert Heinlein used a |
mixture of Russian, Australian, Chinese and possibly other words and
expressions to show the mixed background of the moon colonists. He was
particularly fond of the Aussie term 'cobber'. He also popularized the
term, 'TANSTAAFL', (which I thought for a long time was a real language
word and not an acronym, based on an unconscious set of assumptions and a
failure to read clearly the text because of those assumptions.)
--
David Wright Sr.
If you haven't joined The Heinlein Society, Why Not?
http://heinleinsociety.org/join.html
The Heinlein Estate is again matching new member
registrations and fund raising up to $15,000
Make your new membership count twice! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wood Avens
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:01 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
On Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:16:03 +0100, Mike Barnes
<april2005@mikebarnes.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | "That's not the way we talk" is the headline above an article printed on
today's _Guardian_ (British newspaper), reprinted from the LA Times. See
the original at
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kenny22mar22,0,2
498777.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
The author complains about the way British English is influencing
American English. Targets include "send up", "spot on", "sacked", and
"queue up". But he saves most of his indignation for "went missing".
|
Fascinating. Until today I'd assumed "gone missing" was an
Americanism which had weaselled its way into Britspeak, rather than
the other way round.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Dean
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:25 pm
Post subject: Re: "That's not the way we talk" |
|
|
Mike Barnes wrote:
| Quote: | "That's not the way we talk" is the headline above an article printed
on today's _Guardian_ (British newspaper), reprinted from the LA
Times. See the original at
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-kenny22mar22,0,2
498777.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
The author complains about the way British English is influencing
American English. Targets include "send up", "spot on", "sacked", and
"queue up". But he saves most of his indignation for "went missing".
The headline-writers at The Guardian wrote "It's ruining the
language", which seems to exaggerate the professor's position on the
matter, perhaps in a lame attempt to swell the post bag.
|
Strictly, the headline is ['That's not the way we talk'], implying that
the statement is from the article, which it is.
And "It's ruining the language" is actually, in full "And it's ruining
the language, says US journalism professor Timothy Kenny". Which seems
to me a fair precis of "... a virus that's infecting American media
these days: Britspeak. We have become a nation of journalistic copycats,
betraying perfectly good American idioms along the way."
There are some differences between what's in the LA Times and what's in
the Guardian. Some of this may be typography (eitherpondially), but some
is clearly deliberate. Unfortunately (I guess copyright) the Guardian
version isn't available in G2 on-line. Here's what I noticed:
LA - Oh those posh Brits
G2 - Oh, those posh Brits
LA - More widely used are "went missing" and its close relative, "gone
missing."
G2 - More widely used is "went missing".
LA - Britspeak is less common, at least in print, outside the Northeast,
but it's there.
G2 - Britspeak is less common, at least in print, outside Washington and
New York, but it's there.
LA - The Los Angeles Times, for instance, used "went missing" not at all
in 1994 and 17 times in 2004; same trend with "gone missing."
G2 - The Los Angeles Times, for instance, used "went missing" not at all
in 1994 and 17 times in 2004.
LA - Harold Evans, a Brit who's lived on both sides of the Atlantic,
edited the Sunday Times of London ...
G2 - Harold Evans, a Brit who's lived on both sides of the Atlantic,
edited the Sunday Times in London ...
[One of my old bugbears, the suggestion (as I hear it, I know you don't
all agree) from Americans that English National Papers are actually
city-based. Interesting (to me) that the Guardian would (I assume)
correct this)
LA - "Gone missing," he says, is "more active" than disappeared.
G2 - Gone missing, he says, is "more active" than disappeared.
There seemed to me to be more colons psi than I am accustomed to. Izzat
the LA Times, journalism profs in general or Prof Kenny in particular?
I wonder how much Timothy would like the changes if he ever saw them?
--
John Dean
Oxford |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| |
FAQ
Memberlist
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in