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FB
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 5:39 pm
Post subject: "Got any" |
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I heard the following sentence in a film (the actor was British):
"I haven't got any matches",
where "got any" was pronounced as "I haven't gotney matches".
I don't mean he made a glottal stop in lieu of the "t" (which I would not
like), it just was pronounced as in "partner", not as in "time". Is that
the correct RP pronunciation? Is it as correct as if it were pronounced
with a clear "t" sound, such as in "time" or "tear"?
I, for one, suppose it is, just like such words as "garden" can be
pronounced either with a clear "d" sound (as in "dove") or a non-plosive,
if that is the right word, sound, as if it were written "gard'n", either
version not being more correct than the other.
If necessary, I can provide mp3s of both sounds.
Bye, FB
--
"Nasalization is just a part of life"
(Joey DoWop Dee on it.cultura.linguistica.inglese)
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Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:15 pm
Post subject: Re: "Got any" |
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FB wrote:
| Quote: | I heard the following sentence in a film (the actor was British):
"I haven't got any matches",
where "got any" was pronounced as "I haven't gotney matches".
I don't mean he made a glottal stop in lieu of the "t" (which I would not
like), it just was pronounced as in "partner", not as in "time". Is that
the correct RP pronunciation? Is it as correct as if it were pronounced
with a clear "t" sound, such as in "time" or "tear"?
|
This isn't received pronunciation - there the "a" in "any" would be
pronounced as a schwa. What has happened its taht the schwa has been
compressed so much that it has effectively disappeared. This is quite
common, particlularly in fast speech.
The "t" sound in "got", as is usual with "t" sounds at the end of a
syllable is not the same as an initial "t" and is rarely what you call
"plosive" like the initial "t". There is a similar difference the "d"
sound at the end of a syllable and an initial "d"
| Quote: | I, for one, suppose it is, just like such words as "garden" can be
pronounced either with a clear "d" sound (as in "dove") or a non-plosive,
if that is the right word, sound, as if it were written "gard'n", either
version not being more correct than the other.
If necessary, I can provide mp3s of both sounds.
I would never pronounce the word "garden" with what you call a plosive |
"d". "Garden" is usually pronounced as if it were written "gard'n".
Regards, Einde o'Callaghan |
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Mike Stevens
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:18 am
Post subject: Re: "Got any" |
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"FB" <fam.balducciNOSPAM@tin.it> wrote in message
news:8s6p0lfppz3r$.yo78nxp9vpci$.dlg@40tude.net...
| Quote: | I heard the following sentence in a film (the actor was British):
"I haven't got any matches",
where "got any" was pronounced as "I haven't gotney matches".
I don't mean he made a glottal stop in lieu of the "t" (which I would not
like), it just was pronounced as in "partner", not as in "time". Is that
the correct RP pronunciation?
|
I'd say not. Actually I find the combination of the (presumably) RP
"haven't" with the elision of "gotney" rather surprising. I'd have expected
either the RP "haven't got any" or the demotic "ain't gotney", or even
"ain't gotno".
The one sort of UK speech pattern I can just about envisage producing the
combinatrion would probably come from somebody educated at a middle-ranking
private school - many of these produce idiosycratic variations of RP.
--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat "Felis Catus II"
My web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
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FB
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: "Got any" |
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On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 03:18:30 +0100, Mike Stevens wrote:
| Quote: | The one sort of UK speech pattern I can just about envisage producing the
combinatrion would probably come from somebody educated at a middle-ranking
private school - many of these produce idiosycratic variations of RP.
|
Actually the speaker sounds educated, rather posh. He plays "Mr. Mayhew" in
"Witness for the Prosecution" by Billy Wilder; he also says "rather
well-orf" for "rather well-off".
I could supply a small mp3 file, perhaps I haven't made myself clear as to
"gotney", or maybe I am mistaken about what I heard.
Bye, FB
--
L'importante è che risplenda tu, sola primadonna e immarcescibile leggenda
del tuo pianerottolo.
(Lucangel su it.cultura.libri) |
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FB
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: "Got any" |
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On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:15:34 +0200, Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
| Quote: | This isn't received pronunciation - there the "a" in "any" would be
pronounced as a schwa.
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Would the "t" be plosive (again, if that is the right word) in that case,
like in "time", or rather like in "partner"? In the latter case, it might
be what the actor actually said.
| Quote: | The "t" sound in "got", as is usual with "t" sounds at the end of a
syllable is not the same as an initial "t" and is rarely what you call
"plosive" like the initial "t". There is a similar difference the "d"
sound at the end of a syllable and an initial "d"
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I see.
| Quote: | I would never pronounce the word "garden" with what you call a plosive
"d".
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I wouldn't either, but my dictionary (Collins for Advanced Learners)
supplies an audiofile of the pronunciation of every word, and "garden" is
pronounced "gar den". For clarity's sake, I presume.
Bye, FB
--
"Gli americani sono ignoranti per loro stessa natura"
that is "The Americans are naturally ignorant"
(Paolo Bonardi on it.cultura.linguistica) |
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Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:15 pm
Post subject: Re: "Got any" |
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FB wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:15:34 +0200, Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
This isn't received pronunciation - there the "a" in "any" would be
pronounced as a schwa.
Would the "t" be plosive (again, if that is the right word) in that case,
like in "time", or rather like in "partner"? In the latter case, it might
be what the actor actually said.
As i pointed out below, the sound would be more like the "t" in |
"partner" - assumeing what is called a non-rhotic accent (i.e. one where
the "r" at the end of a syllable is normally not pronounced, which is
the case in RP).
| Quote: |
The "t" sound in "got", as is usual with "t" sounds at the end of a
syllable is not the same as an initial "t" and is rarely what you call
"plosive" like the initial "t". There is a similar difference the "d"
sound at the end of a syllable and an initial "d"
I see.
I would never pronounce the word "garden" with what you call a plosive
"d".
I wouldn't either, but my dictionary (Collins for Advanced Learners)
supplies an audiofile of the pronunciation of every word, and "garden" is
pronounced "gar den". For clarity's sake, I presume.
It would sound incredibly artificial to me. |
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FB
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:01 pm
Post subject: Re: "Got any" |
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On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:15:34 +0200, Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
| Quote: | This isn't received pronunciation - there the "a" in "any" would be
pronounced as a schwa. What has happened its taht the schwa has been
compressed so much that it has effectively disappeared. This is quite
common, particlularly in fast speech.
|
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/gotany.mp3 (about 34 Kb)
Now I think I can hear a schwa. Can you?
| Quote: | I would never pronounce the word "garden" with what you call a plosive
"d". "Garden" is usually pronounced as if it were written "gard'n".
|
Here is the pronunciation Collins Dictionary supplies for "garden" and
"gardens":
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/garden.mp3 (about 37 Kb)
The singular sounds "gar den", the plural sounds "gard'nz".
Bye, FB
--
"Gli americani sono ignoranti per loro stessa natura"
that is "The Americans are naturally ignorant"
(Paolo Bonardi on it.cultura.linguistica) |
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Scott Wood
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 9:35 am
Post subject: Re: "Got any" |
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On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:01:51 GMT, FB <fam.balducciNOSPAM@tin.it> wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:15:34 +0200, Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
This isn't received pronunciation - there the "a" in "any" would be
pronounced as a schwa. What has happened its taht the schwa has been
compressed so much that it has effectively disappeared. This is quite
common, particlularly in fast speech.
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/gotany.mp3 (about 34 Kb)
Now I think I can hear a schwa. Can you?
|
I can, though it's rather brief. What I found more interesting,
though, was his pronunciation of "matches" with what sounded like
[dZ] rather than [tS] (that is, rhyming with "badges" instead of
"batches").
| Quote: | I would never pronounce the word "garden" with what you call a plosive
"d". "Garden" is usually pronounced as if it were written "gard'n".
Here is the pronunciation Collins Dictionary supplies for "garden" and
"gardens":
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/garden.mp3 (about 37 Kb)
The singular sounds "gar den", the plural sounds "gard'nz".
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I'd call the first [gA@ d@n] and the second [gA*nz]. While the "e"
isn't quite the same in both, neither one sounds like "den".
-Scott |
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FB
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:30 pm
Post subject: Re: "Got any" |
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On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:35:03 -0500, Scott Wood wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:01:51 GMT, FB <fam.balducciNOSPAM@tin.it> wrote:
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/gotany.mp3 (about 34 Kb)
Now I think I can hear a schwa. Can you?
I can, though it's rather brief. What I found more interesting,
though, was his pronunciation of "matches" with what sounded like
[dZ] rather than [tS] (that is, rhyming with "badges" instead of
"batches").
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Might it be part of his being posh?
| Quote: | http://xoomer.virgilio.it/fb83/garden.mp3 (about 37 Kb)
The singular sounds "gar den", the plural sounds "gard'nz".
I'd call the first [gA@ d@n] and the second [gA*nz]. While the "e"
isn't quite the same in both, neither one sounds like "den".
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I'm sorry. Mine was a quick and sloppy transcription.
--
Io ho deciso di rifiutarmi di vederlo: Ettore con la faccia di Eric Banana
mi fa venire i conati.
(commento sul film "Troy" su it.fan.scrittori.tolkien) |
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