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chrissy
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:01 am
Post subject: Teenagers |
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I wonder if other languages than English have the word "teenager" and
the associated concepts.
In English (I'm presuming now) it's formed from the suffix "teen" on
the words for the numbers 13-19 inclusive, but in other languages (eg
French, Italian) the patterns don't persist past 16. In German you get
"zehn" on the end, but are there "Zehnsteren"?
cheers
Chrissy
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:18 am
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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chrissy <chrissy_brady1@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I wonder if other languages than English have the word "teenager" and
the associated concepts.
In English (I'm presuming now) it's formed from the suffix "teen" on
the words for the numbers 13-19 inclusive, but in other languages (eg
French, Italian) the patterns don't persist past 16. In German you get
"zehn" on the end, but are there "Zehnsteren"?
|
You can get words in multiple languages by going to machine-translation
programs like Google/Language Tools, or www.worldlingo.com .
I think you'll find it doesn't happen in many languages - meaning, they
certainly have a word that means "teenager," but it doesn't resemble the
numbers. But it does happen to hold true in Dutch, which uses "-tien" in
numbers and calls such a person a "tien" or 'tiener".
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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Michael Mendelsohn
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 6:00 am
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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chrissy schrieb:
| Quote: | I wonder if other languages than English have the word "teenager" and
the associated concepts.
In English (I'm presuming now) it's formed from the suffix "teen" on
the words for the numbers 13-19 inclusive, but in other languages (eg
French, Italian) the patterns don't persist past 16. In German you get
"zehn" on the end, but are there "Zehnsteren"?
|
In German, there aren't.
We either use your word "teenager" or our own "Jugendliche" (youths),
which are older than "Kinder" (children). The phrase "Kinder und
Jugendliche" is quite common. Legally, "Jugendliche" are 14-17 years
old, but in common usage, the age boundaries can be extended beyond that
somewhat.
Another way to characterize age groups is as in sports: the U20 group
contains people under 20. Similarly U30 etc.
A coinage similar to what you seek is "Mittzwanziger" (mid-twenty-er),
describing a person of around 25 years of age, give or take a few years.
Similarly for 30, 40 etc., but not for 10.
Happy Holidays
Michael
--
Still an attentive ear he lent Her speech hath caused this pain
But could not fathom what she meant Easier I count it to explain
She was not deep, nor eloquent. The jargon of the howling main
-- from Lewis Carroll: The Three Usenet Trolls
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Adrian Bailey
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 6:21 am
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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"chrissy" <chrissy_brady1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f8f1b420.0412241401.658b01d5@posting.google.com...
| Quote: | I wonder if other languages than English have the word "teenager" and
the associated concepts.
In English (I'm presuming now) it's formed from the suffix "teen" on
the words for the numbers 13-19 inclusive, but in other languages (eg
French, Italian) the patterns don't persist past 16. In German you get
"zehn" on the end, but are there "Zehnsteren"?
|
The term "teenager" is becoming universal partly because other languages
don't have a similar term. But I think most other countries don't get that
teenagerdom/teenagerhood only starts at 13, and take it to mean any child in
double digits.
Adrian |
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Martin Ambuhl
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 8:04 am
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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chrissy wrote:
| Quote: | I wonder if other languages than English have the word "teenager" and
the associated concepts.
In English (I'm presuming now) it's formed from the suffix "teen" on
the words for the numbers 13-19 inclusive, but in other languages (eg
French, Italian) the patterns don't persist past 16. In German you get
"zehn" on the end, but are there "Zehnsteren"?
|
There is a sizeable literature on the development of the concept
"teenager" in sociology, especially of the softer or popular kind. The
concept is usually assigned to the mid-1950s and to the United States.
Either because the same forces that led to the development of the
concept in the US operate elsewhere or because of American cultural
hegemony, almost every language and culture now knows of teenagers.
German has "Teenager."
Italian has "teen-ager."
Japanese has "tineja."
Most languages have an "adolescent" or "youth" equivalent, sometimes
specialized to the concept "teenager":
Jugenliche, Heranwachsende (German)
adolescente (Spanish)
adolescente (Italian)
jeune, adolescent (French)
podrostok, yenosha (Russian)
qingshaonian (Chinese) |
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Adamello
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 5:33 am
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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| Quote: | In English (I'm presuming now) it's formed from the suffix "teen" on
the words for the numbers 13-19 inclusive, but in other languages (eg
French, Italian) the patterns don't persist past 16. In German you get
"zehn" on the end, but are there "Zehnsteren"?
|
Polish does have a good equivalent - "nastolatek". The "nasto-" part comes
from an inflected form of "-nas'cie", which corresponds to the English
"teen" in numbers. "-latek" is derived from the equivalent of "years".
However, the whole word seems to be simply the part that words meaning
11-year-old to 19-year-old have in common, i.e. -teen-year-old.
That must sound complicated, so the short answer is - Polish has such a word
based on the same concept. 
Merry Christmas
Adam |
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Hagrinas Mivali
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 6:53 am
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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Adamello wrote:
| Quote: | In English (I'm presuming now) it's formed from the suffix "teen" on
the words for the numbers 13-19 inclusive, but in other languages (eg
French, Italian) the patterns don't persist past 16. In German you
get "zehn" on the end, but are there "Zehnsteren"?
Polish does have a good equivalent - "nastolatek". The "nasto-" part
comes from an inflected form of "-nas'cie", which corresponds to the
English "teen" in numbers. "-latek" is derived from the equivalent of
"years". However, the whole word seems to be simply the part that
words meaning 11-year-old to 19-year-old have in common, i.e.
-teen-year-old.
That must sound complicated, so the short answer is - Polish has such
a word based on the same concept.
|
The difference is that the English word covers a period that is more closely
aligned with the period ranging from the typical start of puberty to the
typical end of growth for males. If 11 and 12 in English had words ending
in "teen," would our cultural view of teenagers be different? Girls tend to
mature earlier, and typically stop growing closer to age 16. Yet a 19 year
old woman would be classified as an adult but would also be included in
teenage pregnancy statistics in the US. |
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John Varela
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2004 8:03 am
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 03:33:32 UTC, Martin Ambuhl <mambuhl@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | There is a sizeable literature on the development of the concept
"teenager" in sociology, especially of the softer or popular kind. The
concept is usually assigned to the mid-1950s and to the United States.
|
Hmm. I myself became a teenager in 1948 and I can't recall the term
"teenager" being in use at that time. I think it wasn't, which is a mild
surprise. Some aspects of teenage culture definitely began earlier; I'm
thinking of shrieking girls at Frank Sinatra concerts in the early 40s.
--
John Varela
(Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.)
I apologize for munging the address but the spam was too much. |
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Per Rønne
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 1:29 am
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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Adrian Bailey <dadge@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "chrissy" <chrissy_brady1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f8f1b420.0412241401.658b01d5@posting.google.com...
I wonder if other languages than English have the word "teenager" and
the associated concepts.
In English (I'm presuming now) it's formed from the suffix "teen" on
the words for the numbers 13-19 inclusive, but in other languages (eg
French, Italian) the patterns don't persist past 16. In German you get
"zehn" on the end, but are there "Zehnsteren"?
|
In Danish we use the word "teenager" meaning "13-19 year olds". In
Danish 12 is tolv, 13 is tretTEN, 14 fjorTEN, 15 femTEN, 16 seksTEN, 17
sytTEN, 18 atTEN, 19 nitTEN, 20 tyve. You see the pattern?
The Swedes use the word "tonåring"; "ton" replaces the above mentioned
"ten" in Danish, the remainder is the same, and "åring" means
"year-old".
In German, the words are 13 dreiZEHN, 14 vierZEHN, 15 fünfZEHN, 16
sechZEHN, 17 siebZEHN, 18 achZEHN, 19 neunZEHN. The prefix to these
suffixes, in all languages, mean 3..9, so probably the pattern is common
Germanic.
| Quote: | The term "teenager" is becoming universal partly because other languages
don't have a similar term. But I think most other countries don't get that
teenagerdom/teenagerhood only starts at 13, and take it to mean any child in
double digits.
|
10-19 olds? The 19-year-olds included? I'd say you're a child until you
reach 18, a youth in the range 18-29 - and then an adult:-).
--
Per Erik Rønne |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 2:09 am
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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John Varela <OLDlamps@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 03:33:32 UTC, Martin Ambuhl <mambuhl@earthlink.net> wrote:
There is a sizeable literature on the development of the concept
"teenager" in sociology, especially of the softer or popular kind. The
concept is usually assigned to the mid-1950s and to the United States.
Hmm. I myself became a teenager in 1948 and I can't recall the term
"teenager" being in use at that time. I think it wasn't, which is a mild
surprise. Some aspects of teenage culture definitely began earlier; I'm
thinking of shrieking girls at Frank Sinatra concerts in the early 40s.
|
I find this interesting:
Main Entry: teen·age
Variant(s): or teen·aged \-jd\
Date: 1921
of, being, or relating to people in their teens
- teen·ag·er \--jr\ noun
Main Entry: 2 teen
Date: 1818
a teenage person : TEENAGER
- teen adjective
In particular, I wonder what they could have found in 1818, and where.
Is it in the OED?
I also don't remember ever seeing any jokes about the other definition
of "teen":
Main Entry: 1 teen
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English tene, from Old English tona injury,
grief; akin to Old Norse tjn loss, damage
Date: 13th century
archaic : MISERY, AFFLICTION
That was just crying out for some Generation Gap jokes, if it had only
been known.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:40 am
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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John Varela writes:
| Quote: | I myself became a teenager in 1948 and I can't recall the term
"teenager" being in use at that time. I think it wasn't, which is
a mild surprise. Some aspects of teenage culture definitely began
earlier ...
|
Donna Richoux writes (without naming the dictionary cited):
| Quote: | I find this interesting:
Main Entry: teen·age
Variant(s): or teen·aged \-jd\
Date: 1921
of, being, or relating to people in their teens
- teen·ag·er \--jr\ noun
Main Entry: 2 teen
Date: 1818
a teenage person : TEENAGER
- teen adjective
In particular, I wonder what they could have found in 1818, and where.
Is it in the OED?
|
The OED1 has "teenage" cites from c.1700 and from 1706 -- only
the meaning of this word is "brushwood for fences and hedges"!
It comes from "teen", a Kentish dialect verb meaning "to fence,
hedge in, make a hedge with raddles", related to "tine".
It does not have "teenage" or "teenager" in the age sense, but it
does have an entry for a "teen ... usually in pl. teens". In
reference to years of a person's life, this is cited as early as
1673; meaning a teenager, it is cited from 1820 (in a book title:
"Advice to the Teens; or, Practical Helps to the Formation of
Character"). So the dictionary Donna cites has antedated this
by two years.
"Teener" is also cited, meaning a teenager. This is from 1894
and reads "This rigid man was wound round the finger of a female
'teener' -- as the Americans beautifully express it."
This entry was written in 1911. The 1933 supplement does not add
"teenage" or "teenager" in the age sense, but of course the 1980s
supplement does. The earliest cite for "teen age" -- not only
written as two words, but in scare quotes like the above cite --
is from 1921. The next few cites are hyphenated, and the one cite
actually spelled "teenage" is from 1977. For "teen-ager", the first
cite is from 1941 (in Popular Science Monthly), the first unhyphenated
cite is from 1960 (Kingsley Amis), and the most recent cite, from the
Times Literary Supplement in 1980, reads "Teenagers, of course had
not been invented in the 1880s".
--
Mark Brader "It is hard to be brave," said Piglet, sniffing
Toronto slightly, when you're only a Very Small Animal".
msb@vex.net -- A. A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh
My text in this article is in the public domain. |
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J. J. Lodder
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 6:28 am
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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chrissy <chrissy_brady1@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I wonder if other languages than English have the word "teenager" and
the associated concepts.
|
Dutch has 'tiener', from 'tien'.
but I don't know how old it is,
so it may be translated teenager,
Jan |
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Odysseus
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:04 am
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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Per Rønne wrote:
| Quote: |
"chrissy" <chrissy_brady1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f8f1b420.0412241401.658b01d5@posting.google.com...
I wonder if other languages than English have the word "teenager" and
the associated concepts.
In English (I'm presuming now) it's formed from the suffix "teen" on
the words for the numbers 13-19 inclusive, but in other languages (eg
French, Italian) the patterns don't persist past 16. In German you get
"zehn" on the end, but are there "Zehnsteren"?
In Danish we use the word "teenager" meaning "13-19 year olds". In
Danish 12 is tolv, 13 is tretTEN, 14 fjorTEN, 15 femTEN, 16 seksTEN, 17
sytTEN, 18 atTEN, 19 nitTEN, 20 tyve. You see the pattern?
The Swedes use the word "tonåring"; "ton" replaces the above mentioned
"ten" in Danish, the remainder is the same, and "åring" means
"year-old".
In German, the words are 13 dreiZEHN, 14 vierZEHN, 15 fünfZEHN, 16
sechZEHN, 17 siebZEHN, 18 achZEHN, 19 neunZEHN. The prefix to these
suffixes, in all languages, mean 3..9, so probably the pattern is common
Germanic.
|
Yes; the same pattern, the words for 11 & 12 being exceptional, is
found in Gothic, Old English, and Old Norse, and persists in their
modern descendants, including Dutch and Icelandic beside those
already mentioned. In most of the modern Romance languages there are
two patterns, one covering the numbers from 11 to 16 (or 15, in
Spanish & Portuguese) and the other from 17 (or 16) to 19, but in
Romanian, as in the Slavic languages (which may have influenced it),
the 'teen-words' from 11 to 19 are all regularly formed.
--
Odysseus |
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Per Rønne
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 3:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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Odysseus <odysseus1479-at@yahoo-dot.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | Yes; the same pattern, the words for 11 & 12 being exceptional, is
found in Gothic, Old English, and Old Norse, and persists in their
modern descendants, including Dutch and Icelandic beside those
already mentioned.
|
Then, we can ask why these numbers are excepted. A remnant of an old
duodecimal system?
--
Per Erik Rønne |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 7:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Teenagers |
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Per Rønne <spam@husumtoften.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | Odysseus <odysseus1479-at@yahoo-dot.ca> wrote:
Yes; the same pattern, the words for 11 & 12 being exceptional, is
found in Gothic, Old English, and Old Norse, and persists in their
modern descendants, including Dutch and Icelandic beside those
already mentioned.
Then, we can ask why these numbers are excepted. A remnant of an old
duodecimal system?
|
Only in the sense that "duodecimal" means "two plus ten." It's not from
a base-twelve system.
American Heritage has a special "Word History" note under "eleven":
Why do we not say oneteen, twoteen along the same
pattern as thirteen, fourteen, fifteen? Eleven in
Old English is endleofan, and related forms in the
various Germanic languages point back to an original
Germanic *ainlif, "eleven." *Ainlif is composed of
*ain-, "one," the same as our one, and the suffix
*-lif from the Germanic root *lib-, "to adhere,
remain, remain left over." Thus, eleven is literally
"one-left" (over, that is, past ten), and twelve is
"two-left" (over past ten).
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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