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Hanna Burdon
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:00 pm
Post subject: Gryfici in English? |
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I have a bit of a translation problem - again!
There was a powerful medieval family, a dynasty of Pomeranian dukes,
called "Gryfici" because the principal sign (I believe it is called a
charge in heraldry?) on their coat of arms was a "gryf", or
griffin/gryphon.
I would like to translate the word "Gryfici" into English but I'm not sure
how to make a family name from a coat of arms. "Griffites"? Would an
English speaker associate the word "Griffite" with a griffin?
I considered "the House of Griffins" or something like that, but it seems
to me that in the "house of" construction whatever is after "of" is
normally the first name of the family's founder, so it would be misleading
people into thinking that Griffin was a person, am I right?
Hope this question is not too confusing.
Hanna
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Jim Ward
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Gryfici in English? |
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On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:22:25 -0000, "Hanna Burdon"
<hburdonWYTNIJ@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I would like to translate the word "Gryfici" into English but I'm not sure
how to make a family name from a coat of arms. "Griffites"? Would an
English speaker associate the word "Griffite" with a griffin?
|
I'd suggest Griffith, which the link below suggests comes from the
Welsh for fierce. Close enough.
http://www.geocities.com/edgarbook/names/g/griffith.html |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Gryfici in English? |
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Hanna Burdon wrote:
| Quote: | I have a bit of a translation problem - again!
There was a powerful medieval family, a dynasty of Pomeranian dukes,
called "Gryfici" because the principal sign (I believe it is called a
charge in heraldry?) on their coat of arms was a "gryf", or
griffin/gryphon.
I would like to translate the word "Gryfici" into English but I'm not
sure how to make a family name from a coat of arms. "Griffites"?
Would an English speaker associate the word "Griffite" with a griffin?
I considered "the House of Griffins" or something like that, but it
seems to me that in the "house of" construction whatever is after
"of" is normally the first name of the family's founder, so it would
be misleading people into thinking that Griffin was a person, am I
right?
Hope this question is not too confusing.
Hanna
|
"House of Griffin" seems about right. You run the risk of having people
believe it's a proper name but that ambiguity is unavoidable. I wonder
why you want to translate it? A quick Google shows that "House of
Gryfici" is used. We don't translate names like Hapsburg [1] or Medici
and we didn't translate Battenberg until the Mountbattens started doing
it themselves.
[1] see the Imperial House of Hapsburg website at
http://www.hapsburg.com/
--
John Dean
Oxford
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Adrian Bailey
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Gryfici in English? |
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"Hanna Burdon" <hburdonWYTNIJ@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:cn4qlt$osj$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
| Quote: | I have a bit of a translation problem - again!
There was a powerful medieval family, a dynasty of Pomeranian dukes,
called "Gryfici" because the principal sign (I believe it is called a
charge in heraldry?) on their coat of arms was a "gryf", or
griffin/gryphon.
I would like to translate the word "Gryfici" into English but I'm not sure
how to make a family name from a coat of arms. "Griffites"? Would an
English speaker associate the word "Griffite" with a griffin?
I considered "the House of Griffins" or something like that, but it seems
to me that in the "house of" construction whatever is after "of" is
normally the first name of the family's founder, so it would be misleading
people into thinking that Griffin was a person, am I right?
Hope this question is not too confusing.
|
A bit of googling shows that Gryfici and Griffin are both used:
http://tinyurl.com/69xbw
http://tinyurl.com/3kfnt
Have a look, and decide which approach you prefer.
Adrian |
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Hanna Burdon
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Gryfici in English? |
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In news:cn4usf$pop$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk, John Dean wrote:
| Quote: | I wonder why you want to translate it? A quick Google shows that
"House of Gryfici" is used. We don't translate names like Hapsburg
[1] or Medici and we didn't translate Battenberg until the
Mountbattens started doing it themselves.
|
"Medici" would be "Medyceusze" in Polish, even though Habsburg (or for
example Windsor) would stay the same. I suppose it's a matter of usage. In
this particular case my intuition tells me that it would sound better if I
could make "Gryfici" sound a little more English, possibly because it's
more a nickname (from the "gryf" on the coat of arms) than a surname
(which I think was ¦wiebodzic or ¦wiebodzice).
Hanna |
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mUs1Ka
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Gryfici in English? |
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Hanna Burdon wrote:
| Quote: | I have a bit of a translation problem - again!
There was a powerful medieval family, a dynasty of Pomeranian dukes,
called "Gryfici" because the principal sign (I believe it is called a
charge in heraldry?) on their coat of arms was a "gryf", or
griffin/gryphon.
I would like to translate the word "Gryfici" into English but I'm not
sure how to make a family name from a coat of arms. "Griffites"?
Would an English speaker associate the word "Griffite" with a griffin?
I considered "the House of Griffins" or something like that, but it
seems to me that in the "house of" construction whatever is after
"of" is normally the first name of the family's founder, so it would
be misleading people into thinking that Griffin was a person, am I
right? Hope this question is not too confusing.
Hanna
House of the gryphon? |
--
Ray |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Gryfici in English? |
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Hanna Burdon wrote:
| Quote: | In news:cn4usf$pop$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk, John Dean wrote:
I wonder why you want to translate it? A quick Google shows that
"House of Gryfici" is used. We don't translate names like Hapsburg
[1] or Medici and we didn't translate Battenberg until the
Mountbattens started doing it themselves.
"Medici" would be "Medyceusze" in Polish, even though Habsburg (or for
example Windsor) would stay the same. I suppose it's a matter of
usage. In this particular case my intuition tells me that it would
sound better if I could make "Gryfici" sound a little more English,
possibly because it's more a nickname (from the "gryf" on the coat of
arms) than a surname (which I think was ¦wiebodzic or ¦wiebodzice).
Hanna
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You didn't say what the translation was for, and if it's a fairly
academic piece I'd stay with my "House of Griffin" or possibly "House of
the Griffin". If it's a little more free and easy then perhaps "Under
the sign of the Griffin" or "Under the device of the Griffin" or even
"Under the badge of the Griffin".
We use forms like that occasionally so Richard III's supporters would
put themselves "Under the sign of the White Boar" or supporters of
Warwick the Kingmaker would say they followed the "sign (or device) of
the bear and ragged staff".
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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Martin Ambuhl
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: Gryfici in English? |
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Hanna Burdon wrote:
| Quote: | I have a bit of a translation problem - again!
There was a powerful medieval family, a dynasty of Pomeranian dukes,
called "Gryfici" because the principal sign (I believe it is called a
charge in heraldry?) on their coat of arms was a "gryf", or
griffin/gryphon.
I would like to translate the word "Gryfici" into English but I'm not
sure how to make a family name from a coat of arms. "Griffites"? Would
an English speaker associate the word "Griffite" with a griffin?
|
Call them "the Gryfici" and be done with it. By the way, MW shows a
griffin/griffon/gryphon with black wings and a yellow body, claws, and
beak on a shield of red (let the heraldry people supply the right words)
under its entry for "griffin." |
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Paul Wolff
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: Gryfici in English? |
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In message <cn4qlt$osj$1@inews.gazeta.pl>, Hanna Burdon
<hburdonWYTNIJ@ntlworld.com> writes
| Quote: | I have a bit of a translation problem - again!
There was a powerful medieval family, a dynasty of Pomeranian dukes,
called "Gryfici" because the principal sign (I believe it is called a
charge in heraldry?) on their coat of arms was a "gryf", or
griffin/gryphon.
I would like to translate the word "Gryfici" into English but I'm not
sure how to make a family name from a coat of arms.
|
There is already an English family name "Griffin", so why not use that?
Or do you want it to be altered to sound Pomeranian?
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo! |
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Hanna Burdon
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:00 am
Post subject: Re: Gryfici in English? |
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In news:NqGkGJPmFolBFw1g@fpwolff.demon.co.uk, Paul Wolff wrote:
| Quote: | There is already an English family name "Griffin", so why not use
that? Or do you want it to be altered to sound Pomeranian?
I guess I want it to sound Pomeranian, German, Polish and English at the |
same time. Do you think that I'm expecting too much? 
I have read all your comments carefully and I have decided to go with
"Griffins" for the purpose of this translation. Thank you for your help.
Hanna |
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Robert Bannister
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:02 am
Post subject: Re: Gryfici in English? |
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John Dean wrote:
| Quote: | Hanna Burdon wrote:
I have a bit of a translation problem - again!
There was a powerful medieval family, a dynasty of Pomeranian dukes,
called "Gryfici" because the principal sign (I believe it is called a
charge in heraldry?) on their coat of arms was a "gryf", or
griffin/gryphon.
I would like to translate the word "Gryfici" into English but I'm not
sure how to make a family name from a coat of arms. "Griffites"?
Would an English speaker associate the word "Griffite" with a griffin?
I considered "the House of Griffins" or something like that, but it
seems to me that in the "house of" construction whatever is after
"of" is normally the first name of the family's founder, so it would
be misleading people into thinking that Griffin was a person, am I
right?
Hope this question is not too confusing.
Hanna
"House of Griffin" seems about right. You run the risk of having people
believe it's a proper name but that ambiguity is unavoidable. I wonder
why you want to translate it? A quick Google shows that "House of
Gryfici" is used. We don't translate names like Hapsburg [1] or Medici
and we didn't translate Battenberg until the Mountbattens started doing
it themselves.
|
My impression, from what the OP wrote, is that is being used as a family
name. I agree that is no need to translate it. 'Gryfici' and 'griffin'
and close enough, and with a short explanation, such as has been given
above, it should be obvious even to a casual reader: "The House of
Gryfici, who took their name from the griffin on their coat of arms,
was..." - Whoops! I've just noticed my change from what feels (to me)
like a plural "took" to singular "was".
--
Rob Bannister |
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