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AP123
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:23 am
Post subject: Could / managed to |
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From Longman English Grammar:
==================
Specific achievement in the past
Could cannot normally be used when we are describing the successful
completion of a specific action; was/were able to, managed to or succeeded
in + -ing must be used instead:
In the end they managed to rescue | were able to rescue | succeeded in
rescuing the cat on the roof.
If an action was not successfully completed, we may use couldn't:
They tried for hours, but they couldn't rescue the cat.
(or weren't able to, didn't manage to, etc.)
Could can be used when we are asking about a specific action (as opposed to
describing it):
Could they rescue the cat on the roof? (= did they manage to?)
- No, they couldn't. It was too difficult.
However, an affirmative response requires an alternative to could:
- Yes, they managed to. (Not *could*)
==================
(The author then points out that there are some exceptions to the rule.)
1. Perhaps the wording is too strong, but do you generally agree with this
paragraph?
2. If not, can we use "could" to convey the sense of "managed to"? For
instance, there's the sentence: "The forward dribbled past his marker and
scored a fine goal." As I understand it, "managed to score" in the place of
"scored" can be used to convey a sense of some effort/difficulty. Now, I
believe it's wrong to use "could score" if I want to say exactly the same
thing -- managed to score (and bear in mind that he really scored). Is it
correct?
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:38 am
Post subject: Re: Could / managed to |
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AP123 <anonymous.poster@domain.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | From Longman English Grammar:
==================
Specific achievement in the past
Could cannot normally be used when we are describing the successful
completion of a specific action; was/were able to, managed to or succeeded
in + -ing must be used instead:
In the end they managed to rescue | were able to rescue | succeeded in
rescuing the cat on the roof.
If an action was not successfully completed, we may use couldn't:
They tried for hours, but they couldn't rescue the cat.
(or weren't able to, didn't manage to, etc.)
Could can be used when we are asking about a specific action (as opposed to
describing it):
Could they rescue the cat on the roof? (= did they manage to?)
- No, they couldn't. It was too difficult.
However, an affirmative response requires an alternative to could:
- Yes, they managed to. (Not *could*)
==================
(The author then points out that there are some exceptions to the rule.)
1. Perhaps the wording is too strong, but do you generally agree with this
paragraph?
|
Generally, yes. In fact, I don't think they go quite far enough. I would
not be likely to say, in regard to the past, "Could they rescue the cat
on the roof?" I might say that, but I think I'd more likely say, "Were
they able to rescue the cat on the roof?" I'd leave "could" for more
hypothetical suggestions.
| Quote: |
2. If not, can we use "could" to convey the sense of "managed to"? For
instance, there's the sentence: "The forward dribbled past his marker and
scored a fine goal." As I understand it, "managed to score" in the place of
"scored" can be used to convey a sense of some effort/difficulty. Now, I
believe it's wrong to use "could score" if I want to say exactly the same
thing -- managed to score (and bear in mind that he really scored). Is it
correct?
|
You're asking about "The forward dribbled past his marker and could
score a fine goal." No, I wouldn't say that. It feels like it mixes
tenses, and it doesn't leave the firm impression that he *did* score;
maybe he just had an opportunity. I suspect in 19th-century literature,
you could find more of that sort of "could".
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 6:08 am
Post subject: Re: Could / managed to |
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AP123 wrote:
| Quote: | From Longman English Grammar:
==================
Specific achievement in the past
Could cannot normally be used when we are describing the successful
completion of a specific action; was/were able to, managed to or
succeeded in + -ing must be used instead:
In the end they managed to rescue | were able to rescue |
succeeded
in rescuing the cat on the roof.
If an action was not successfully completed, we may use couldn't:
They tried for hours, but they couldn't rescue the cat.
(or weren't able to, didn't manage to, etc.)
Could can be used when we are asking about a specific action (as
opposed to describing it):
Could they rescue the cat on the roof? (= did they manage to?)
- No, they couldn't. It was too difficult.
However, an affirmative response requires an alternative to could:
- Yes, they managed to. (Not *could*)
==================
(The author then points out that there are some exceptions to the
rule.)
1. Perhaps the wording is too strong, but do you generally agree
with
this paragraph?
|
Yes.
| Quote: |
2. If not, can we use "could" to convey the sense of "managed to"?
For
instance, there's the sentence: "The forward dribbled past his
marker
and scored a fine goal." As I understand it, "managed to score" in
the place of "scored" can be used to convey a sense of some
effort/difficulty. Now, I believe it's wrong to use "could score"
if
I want to say exactly the same thing -- managed to score (and bear
in
mind that he really scored). Is it correct?
|
It would be wrong to use "could" in that case.
Mike.
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CyberCypher
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 9:48 am
Post subject: Re: Could / managed to |
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AP123 wrote on 07 Nov 2004:
[...]
| Quote: | 2. If not, can we use "could" to convey the sense of "managed to"?
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I wouldn't. Without an "if" at the beginning of the "could" clause, I
think it's an incorrect usage.
| Quote: | For instance, there's the sentence: "The forward dribbled past his
marker and scored a fine goal." As I understand it, "managed to
score" in the place of "scored" can be used to convey a sense of
some effort/difficulty.
|
Yes. That's how I'd understand it.
| Quote: | Now, I believe it's wrong to use "could
score" if I want to say exactly the same thing -- managed to score
(and bear in mind that he really scored). Is it correct?
|
Yes.
In the medical manuscripts I edit, the MD and PhD authors ivariably use
"could" to mean "was able to" (not really what they anted to say) or
"did" (what really happened and implying nothing about "a sense or some
effort/difficulty"). This is a problem of literal translation from
Chinese into English. Interesting that this should pose a minor problem
even for native anglophones.
--
Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet. |
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john
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 6:50 am
Post subject: Re: Could / managed to |
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AP123 wrote:
| Quote: | From Longman English Grammar:
==================
Specific achievement in the past
Could cannot normally be used when we are describing the successful
completion of a specific action; was/were able to, managed to or succeeded
in + -ing must be used instead:
In the end they managed to rescue | were able to rescue | succeeded in
rescuing the cat on the roof.
If an action was not successfully completed, we may use couldn't:
They tried for hours, but they couldn't rescue the cat.
(or weren't able to, didn't manage to, etc.)
Could can be used when we are asking about a specific action (as opposed to
describing it):
Could they rescue the cat on the roof? (= did they manage to?)
- No, they couldn't. It was too difficult.
However, an affirmative response requires an alternative to could:
- Yes, they managed to. (Not *could*)
==================
(The author then points out that there are some exceptions to the rule.)
1. Perhaps the wording is too strong, but do you generally agree with this
paragraph?
2. If not, can we use "could" to convey the sense of "managed to"? For
instance, there's the sentence: "The forward dribbled past his marker and
scored a fine goal." As I understand it, "managed to score" in the place of
"scored" can be used to convey a sense of some effort/difficulty. Now, I
believe it's wrong to use "could score" if I want to say exactly the same
thing -- managed to score (and bear in mind that he really scored). Is it
correct?
|
G'day AP123,
If he was able to score he did score as that was his aim.
If he could score he did score.
If he managed to score he did score.
If could have scored he did not score but lost the chance or was
unwilling to score so everyone in his team booed him.
If he should have been able to score he failed to score.
If he succeeded in scoring he did score.
Please note that I've used the "did score" form rather than plain
"scored" for emphasis.
John in Sydney. |
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