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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:28 am
Post subject: Re: the.....sea.....Caspean sea....lake? |
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Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
| Quote: | John Briggs wrote:
izzy wrote:
In English, one refers to "The Ukraine".
We refer to "Argentina", but Argentines (I think they prefer that to
"Argentinians") prefer "The Argentine".
On the Website of the London Embassy of the Argentine Republic they
refer to the country as Argentina on the English language pages I've
looked at.
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They are being diplomatic 
--
John Briggs
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izzy
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: the.....sea.....Caspean sea....lake? |
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Argentina is, of course, from Latin argentum = silver, but Brazil may
indeed be from Phoenician BaRZeL = iron. The Phoenicians obtained tin
from Cornwall, England and probably circumnavigated Africa, so they
could have reached Brazil in their Tarshish ships (which were larger
than those used by Columbus). Others think that Brazil is named after
"Brazil wood" that was later imported from Brazil for making musical
instruments.
Israel "izzy" Cohen |
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Mike Stevens
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: the.....sea.....Caspean sea....lake? |
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Einde O'Callaghan wrote:
| Quote: | John Briggs wrote:
izzy wrote:
We refer to "Argentina", but Argentines (I think they prefer that to
"Argentinians") prefer "The Argentine".
On the Website of the London Embassy of the Argentine Republic they
refer to the country as Argentina on the English language pages I've
looked at.
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When I learnt geography at school in the 1950s (in the UK), we knew it as
"The Argentine". I'd always assumed that the form "Argentina" was the
hispanic form and became common here as a result of the Lloyd Webber song.
--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II - Felis Catus III real soon now!
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man.
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izzy
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:01 am
Post subject: Re: the.....sea.....Caspean sea....lake? |
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A Google search of English language websites produces about 113,000,000
hits for "Ukraine" and only 2% of that number for the phrase "the
Ukraine". It seems obvious that modern usage strongly favors dropping
the "the".
Wikipedia has two paragraphs devoted to "Ukraine or the Ukraine" at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine
The country is often referred to in English with the definite article,
as the Ukraine. This usage is now deprecated by many media
organizations (compare "the Lebanon" and "the Sudan") and partly
because of the implication that Ukraine is merely a region rather than
an independent state.
There was, however, no change in Ukrainian or Russian usage with
Ukraine's independence, as there are no articles, definite or
indefinite, in either language. However there is a parallel concerning
the usage of the preposition na or v with Ukraine, both in Ukrainian
and in Russian. Traditional usage is na Ukrayini (loosely, "at
Ukraine"), but recently Ukrainian authorities have been using v
Ukrayini ("in Ukraine"), as this preposition is used with most other
country names. While in Ukrainian the newly introduced usage of v
Ukrayini took hold, the usage in Russian varies. Russian language media
from within Ukraine are increasingly using this form. However, the
media in Russia mostly uses traditional na Ukraine, maintaining that it
remains a proper usage and questioning the authority of the Ukrainian
government over the Russian language. (See also Kiev or Kyiv for a
similar debate).
ciao,
izzy |
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