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zztop
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:00 am
Post subject: Etymology of phrase |
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The expression "Petered out" means losing strength or intensity. Did
this phrase come from Peter's denial of Christ?
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Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: Etymology of phrase |
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zztop wrote:
| Quote: | The expression "Petered out" means losing strength or intensity. Did
this phrase come from Peter's denial of Christ?
No, I believe it comes from the root of teh name - "petros" means "rock" |
in Greek IIRC and as it says in the New Testament. A vein of valuanble
ore peters out when the rock content becomes so great that it's no
longer worth mining - at least that's what I've been told.
REgards, Einde O'Callaghan |
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Nick Wagg
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Etymology of phrase |
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"Einde O'Callaghan" <einde.ocallaghan@planet-interkom.de> wrote in message
news:404l07F18kr7fU1@individual.net...
| Quote: | zztop wrote:
The expression "Petered out" means losing strength or intensity. Did
this phrase come from Peter's denial of Christ?
No, I believe it comes from the root of teh name - "petros" means "rock"
in Greek IIRC and as it says in the New Testament. A vein of valuanble
ore peters out when the rock content becomes so great that it's no
longer worth mining - at least that's what I've been told.
|
Sounds plausible, although my Collins says "etymology unknown".
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Etymology of phrase |
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On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:41:23 -0000, "Nick Wagg" <naw@transcendata.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | "Einde O'Callaghan" <einde.ocallaghan@planet-interkom.de> wrote in message
news:404l07F18kr7fU1@individual.net...
zztop wrote:
The expression "Petered out" means losing strength or intensity. Did
this phrase come from Peter's denial of Christ?
No, I believe it comes from the root of teh name - "petros" means "rock"
in Greek IIRC and as it says in the New Testament. A vein of valuanble
ore peters out when the rock content becomes so great that it's no
longer worth mining - at least that's what I've been told.
Sounds plausible, although my Collins says "etymology unknown".
Even Brewer is cautious, but does say that it is: |
A phrase from the American mining camps of the 1840s of
unknown origin.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from u.c.l.e) |
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Ivan
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: Etymology of phrase |
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Peter Duncanson wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:41:23 -0000, "Nick Wagg" <naw@transcendata.com
wrote:
"Einde O'Callaghan" <einde.ocallaghan@planet-interkom.de> wrote in message
news:404l07F18kr7fU1@individual.net...
zztop wrote:
The expression "Petered out" means losing strength or intensity. Did
this phrase come from Peter's denial of Christ?
No, I believe it comes from the root of teh name - "petros" means "rock"
in Greek IIRC and as it says in the New Testament. A vein of valuanble
ore peters out when the rock content becomes so great that it's no
longer worth mining - at least that's what I've been told.
Sounds plausible, although my Collins says "etymology unknown".
Even Brewer is cautious, but does say that it is:
A phrase from the American mining camps of the 1840s of
unknown origin.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from u.c.l.e)
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Saltpeter is an ingredient in explosives, which were used to expose the
ore in a mine. Thus a mine with no ore left is "petered out."
Ivan |
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Ivan
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:38 am
Post subject: Re: Etymology of phrase |
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Ivan wrote:
| Quote: | Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 09:41:23 -0000, "Nick Wagg" <naw@transcendata.com
wrote:
"Einde O'Callaghan" <einde.ocallaghan@planet-interkom.de> wrote in message
news:404l07F18kr7fU1@individual.net...
zztop wrote:
The expression "Petered out" means losing strength or intensity. Did
this phrase come from Peter's denial of Christ?
No, I believe it comes from the root of teh name - "petros" means "rock"
in Greek IIRC and as it says in the New Testament. A vein of valuanble
ore peters out when the rock content becomes so great that it's no
longer worth mining - at least that's what I've been told.
Sounds plausible, although my Collins says "etymology unknown".
Even Brewer is cautious, but does say that it is:
A phrase from the American mining camps of the 1840s of
unknown origin.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from u.c.l.e)
Saltpeter is an ingredient in explosives, which were used to expose the
ore in a mine. Thus a mine with no ore left is "petered out."
Ivan
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On second thought, Einde's explanation makes more sense.
Ivan |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Etymology of phrase |
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On 12 Dec 2005 12:21:32 -0800, "Ivan" <vorotyntsev@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Saltpeter is an ingredient in explosives, which were used to expose the
ore in a mine. Thus a mine with no ore left is "petered out."
|
I've always assumed that "peterman" for a safe breaker had its origin
in using saltpetre in explosives to blow the bloody doors off but my
COD doesn't seem to think so.
--
Phil C. |
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Etymology of phrase |
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Phil C. wrote:
| Quote: | I've always assumed that "peterman" for a safe breaker had its origin
in using saltpetre in explosives to blow the bloody doors off but my
COD doesn't seem to think so.
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"Peter" in this sense was criminal argot for a safe- at which period I
can't say, but certainly common in whoreadits of the 1930s. I always
understood it to be a reference to stone, from the weight of the safe.
Paul Burke |
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Nick Wagg
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:51 pm
Post subject: Re: Etymology of phrase |
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"Paul Burke" <paul@scazon.com> wrote in message
news:407vh9F18fnhbU1@individual.net...
| Quote: | Phil C. wrote:
I've always assumed that "peterman" for a safe breaker had its origin
in using saltpetre in explosives to blow the bloody doors off but my
COD doesn't seem to think so.
"Peter" in this sense was criminal argot for a safe- at which period I
can't say, but certainly common in whoreadits of the 1930s. I always
understood it to be a reference to stone, from the weight of the safe.
|
I'd lay money that it is rhyming slang. |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Etymology of phrase |
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Nick Wagg wrote:
| Quote: | "Paul Burke" <paul@scazon.com> wrote in message
news:407vh9F18fnhbU1@individual.net...
Phil C. wrote:
I've always assumed that "peterman" for a safe breaker had its
origin in using saltpetre in explosives to blow the bloody doors
off but my COD doesn't seem to think so.
"Peter" in this sense was criminal argot for a safe- at which period
I can't say, but certainly common in whoreadits of the 1930s. I
always understood it to be a reference to stone, from the weight of
the safe.
I'd lay money that it is rhyming slang.
|
Yes, but rhyming with what?
How about:
Peter and Paul - awl
Peter's Pence - dense
Peter's Cross - loss
Peter's Dome - home
This could take some time 
--
John Briggs |
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Nick Wagg
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Etymology of phrase |
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"John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:WVAnf.16371$8v6.1698@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
| Quote: | Nick Wagg wrote:
"Paul Burke" <paul@scazon.com> wrote in message
news:407vh9F18fnhbU1@individual.net...
Phil C. wrote:
I've always assumed that "peterman" for a safe breaker had its
origin in using saltpetre in explosives to blow the bloody doors
off but my COD doesn't seem to think so.
"Peter" in this sense was criminal argot for a safe- at which period
I can't say, but certainly common in whoreadits of the 1930s. I
always understood it to be a reference to stone, from the weight of
the safe.
I'd lay money that it is rhyming slang.
Yes, but rhyming with what?
How about:
Peter and Paul - awl
Peter's Pence - dense
Peter's Cross - loss
Peter's Dome - home
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It has been suggested that "Peter Pan" rhymes with "can" which is equated
to either a safe or a cell, the latter also being referred to as a Peter on
occasions.
Another suggestion is "Peter Hill" (who or where this was, I dinna ken)
was a till, sometimes used in the phrase "to tickle the Peter", meaning to
steal from a cash register, which could plausibly be equated with a safe. |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:18 am
Post subject: Re: Etymology of phrase |
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:33:28 -0000, "Nick Wagg" <naw@transcendata.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | "John Briggs" <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:WVAnf.16371$8v6.1698@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
Nick Wagg wrote:
"Paul Burke" <paul@scazon.com> wrote in message
news:407vh9F18fnhbU1@individual.net...
Phil C. wrote:
I've always assumed that "peterman" for a safe breaker had its
origin in using saltpetre in explosives to blow the bloody doors
off but my COD doesn't seem to think so.
I'd lay money that it is rhyming slang.
It has been suggested that "Peter Pan" rhymes with "can" which is equated
to either a safe or a cell, the latter also being referred to as a Peter on
occasions.
Another suggestion is "Peter Hill" (who or where this was, I dinna ken)
was a till, sometimes used in the phrase "to tickle the Peter", meaning to
steal from a cash register, which could plausibly be equated with a safe.
|
Partridge has got a confusing bunch of peter-related entries, some of
which seem independently to have criminal associations - e.g a
peter-biter (stealer of portmanteaux) from late C17th - too early for
rhyming slang. He sees the C19th development of peter as a box or safe
as related to this earlier meaning of portmateau, trunk or bag but I
can't see this rules out a rhyming-slang influence on the development.
--
Phil C. |
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