| Author |
Message |
apprentice
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:32 am
Post subject: language.culture.english |
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It is funny for me because when we teach/learn English it is both British
and American. Together they make up English. And here suddenly you want to
distinguish between American and British Culture.
I raised that issue due to the fact that you insisted on not asking
questions about American writers. However, I am interested in what Malcolm
wrote. Obviously, vocabulary is important. If I ask you about Stephen King's
works, I guess, you are not going to answer, aren't you?
Pawel
Poland
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Dave Fawthrop
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
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On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 22:32:00 +0100, "apprentice" <mailpawel@wp.pl>
wrote:
|
| It is funny for me because when we teach/learn English it is both British
| and American. Together they make up English. And here suddenly you want to
| distinguish between American and British Culture.
The English and American languages are completely different and only
generally mutually understandable. Worse there are dialects of both
still spoken, in limited areas, which use different vocabulary and
grammar.
The tendency of foreigners to teach them as one language is irrelevant
to the reality of the situation.
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> Sick of Premium SMS scams,
SMS marketing, Direct marketing phone calls, Silent phone calls?
Register with http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/
IME they work  |
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:40 pm
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
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apprentice wrote:
| Quote: |
It is funny for me because when we teach/learn English it is both British
and American. Together they make up English. And here suddenly you want to
distinguish between American and British Culture.
|
No, the point is the uk part of the ng name. We can speak for English
English, but any answers we give about the American (per)version of the
language will necessarily not be ex-cathedra. Even Scots, Welsh and
Irish versions will not necessarily be fully informed.
| Quote: | If I ask you about Stephen King's
works, I guess, you are not going to answer, aren't you?
|
No. Not read any of them. Ask me about Arthur Quiller Couch and I might
have something to say. We'll talk about Joyce and Shaw because we
annexed them, and they didn't like Ireland much anyway.
Paul Burke
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:03 pm
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
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At 08:40:19 on Wed, 7 Dec 2005, Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com> wrote in
<3vnlg8F160isvU1@individual.net>:
| Quote: | apprentice wrote:
If I ask you about Stephen King's works, I guess, you are not going
to answer, aren't you?
No. Not read any of them.
|
You should try some of them - I rate him very highly indeed. Because of
his subject matter, he gets tucked into a "genre" corner by many who
haven't read him, but his handling of language, plot and
characterisation are expert, and better than most "mainstream"
novelists.
And the books are far from all being buckets-of-blood. Try "The Girl
Who Loved Tom Gordon", for example. (Now there we do have a slight
cultural clash, in that I had no idea who Tom Gordon was - but it
becomes apparent right from the start that he's a baseball player, and
the 8-year-old protagonist's hero.)
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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Nick Wagg
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:28 pm
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
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"apprentice" <mailpawel@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:acf6$43960361$d4ba586d$20357@news.chello.pl...
| Quote: |
It is funny for me because when we teach/learn English it is both British
and American. Together they make up English. And here suddenly you want to
distinguish between American and British Culture.
|
Well, our culture is important to us but is in danger of being
swamped by American TV, films, music and fast food.
That is why we are so keen to draw the distinction.
The language may be similar but the cultures are (forgive me)
poles apart. |
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Matthew Huntbach
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:37 pm
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
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|
On Tue, 6 Dec 2005, apprentice wrote:
| Quote: | It is funny for me because when we teach/learn English it is both British
and American. Together they make up English. And here suddenly you want to
distinguish between American and British Culture.
|
Yes. The differences between USA varieties of the English language and
British varieties are not huge, and speakers of the two varieties can
generally converse in a normal fashion. However, the differences do exist,
and they can occasionally cause confusion. This newsgroup you are posting
to is called "uk.culture.language.english", and is thus used by people
who are from the UK. People here are politely reminding you that we are
not the best source of information on usages of the English language in
the USA. We may also be no more familiar with the structures of the USA
government and the culture and lifestyle of people in the USA than you are.
| Quote: | I raised that issue due to the fact that you insisted on not asking
questions about American writers. However, I am interested in what Malcolm
wrote. Obviously, vocabulary is important. If I ask you about Stephen King's
works, I guess, you are not going to answer, aren't you?
|
If the question you are asking about Stephen King's work relates to some
aspect of his usage of the English language which is common to British and
American English, yes we could answer your questions. If, however, he is
using slang terms which are particular to some subculture which exists
only in the USA (this, of course, is more likely in the works of Malcolm X),
people who use this newsgroup are quite likely to have no familiarity with
those slang terms, and thus not to be able to answer your questions.
Matthew Huntbach |
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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:25 pm
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
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Matthew Huntbach wrote:
| Quote: |
This newsgroup you are posting to is called "uk.culture.language.english",
and is thus used by people who are from the UK.
|
That is true, but not strictly relevant to the point at issue. The
important point is that this group is for discussion of the use (and misuse)
of the English language in the UK. Being a uk.* group simply means that it
offers a UK perspective on the subject matter.
--
John Briggs |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:43 pm
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
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|
In article <1133984840.960112.27660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Ivan
<vorotyntsev@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | apprentice wrote:
It is funny for me because when we teach/learn English it is both
British and American. Together they make up English. And here
suddenly you want to distinguish between American and British
Culture. I raised that issue due to the fact that you insisted on
not asking questions about American writers. However, I am
interested in what Malcolm wrote. Obviously, vocabulary is
important. If I ask you about Stephen King's works, I guess, you
are not going to answer, aren't you?
Pawel Poland
There are Americans who post here. Feel free to ask questions about
American writers. I didn't see your original questions about Malcolm
X.
Ivan
|
And I don't suppose I'm alone in wishing that they would keep their own
culture to themselves.
Yours,
Dr Petri
--
David - grough atcost btinternet fullstop com
www grough btinternet co uk/ (where'd me dots go to?) |
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Ivan
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:47 am
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
|
|
apprentice wrote:
| Quote: | It is funny for me because when we teach/learn English it is both British
and American. Together they make up English. And here suddenly you want to
distinguish between American and British Culture.
I raised that issue due to the fact that you insisted on not asking
questions about American writers. However, I am interested in what Malcolm
wrote. Obviously, vocabulary is important. If I ask you about Stephen King's
works, I guess, you are not going to answer, aren't you?
Pawel
Poland
|
There are Americans who post here. Feel free to ask questions about
American writers. I didn't see your original questions about Malcolm X.
Ivan |
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apprentice
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:00 am
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
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Poles apart, nice one
Pawel
Użytkownik "Nick Wagg" <naw@transcendata.com> napisał w wiadomości
news:dn6a0i$alm$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
| Quote: |
"apprentice" <mailpawel@wp.pl> wrote in message
news:acf6$43960361$d4ba586d$20357@news.chello.pl...
It is funny for me because when we teach/learn English it is both British
and American. Together they make up English. And here suddenly you want
to
distinguish between American and British Culture.
Well, our culture is important to us but is in danger of being
swamped by American TV, films, music and fast food.
That is why we are so keen to draw the distinction.
The language may be similar but the cultures are (forgive me)
poles apart.
|
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| Back to top |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
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|
In article <1134074702.082735.274840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
Ivan <vorotyntsev@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | David wrote:
In article <1133984840.960112.27660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Ivan <vorotyntsev@yahoo.com> wrote:
There are Americans who post here. Feel free to ask questions
about American writers. I didn't see your original questions
about Malcolm X.
And I don't suppose I'm alone in wishing that they would keep their
own culture to themselves.
Yours,
Dr Petri
Well, then you should get off the Internet. It's an American
invention.
|
Does that give them the right to take over a "uk" English newsgroup,
insisting, as they normally do, that "American English" is the
definitive form of the language by right of might, and that so-called
"British English" is merely some backwaterish dialect?
No, I think that we do owe it to ourselves not only to differentiate
and discriminate between USAmerican and English but also to maintain a
strong defence against the encroachment of US culture, in the form of
discussing US literature, into English culture newsgroups.
--
David - grough atcost btinternet fullstop com
www grough btinternet co uk/ (where'd me dots go to?) |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:46 am
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
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|
In article <1134076289.626225.157790@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Ivan <vorotyntsev@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Taking it over how? Has anyone prevented you from saying what you
want? I've been on this group a while and haven't seen anyone insist
American English is the definitive form. Haven't seen anyone discuss
US literature at length, either.
|
There you are, then; we're still managing to hold the fort!
bye.
--
David - grough atcost btinternet fullstop com
www grough btinternet co uk/ (where'd me dots go to?) |
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Ivan
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:45 am
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
|
|
David wrote:
| Quote: | In article <1133984840.960112.27660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Ivan
vorotyntsev@yahoo.com> wrote:
apprentice wrote:
It is funny for me because when we teach/learn English it is both
British and American. Together they make up English. And here
suddenly you want to distinguish between American and British
Culture. I raised that issue due to the fact that you insisted on
not asking questions about American writers. However, I am
interested in what Malcolm wrote. Obviously, vocabulary is
important. If I ask you about Stephen King's works, I guess, you
are not going to answer, aren't you?
Pawel Poland
There are Americans who post here. Feel free to ask questions about
American writers. I didn't see your original questions about Malcolm
X.
Ivan
And I don't suppose I'm alone in wishing that they would keep their own
culture to themselves.
Yours,
Dr Petri
--
David - grough atcost btinternet fullstop com
www grough btinternet co uk/ (where'd me dots go to?)
|
Well, then you should get off the Internet. It's an American invention.
No one is forcing American culture on you. Your countrymen are buying
it, in a free market, so they must want it.
Ivan |
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Ivan
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:01 am
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
|
|
David wrote:
| Quote: | In article <1134074702.082735.274840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
Ivan <vorotyntsev@yahoo.com> wrote:
David wrote:
In article <1133984840.960112.27660@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Ivan <vorotyntsev@yahoo.com> wrote:
There are Americans who post here. Feel free to ask questions
about American writers. I didn't see your original questions
about Malcolm X.
And I don't suppose I'm alone in wishing that they would keep their
own culture to themselves.
Yours,
Dr Petri
Well, then you should get off the Internet. It's an American
invention.
Does that give them the right to take over a "uk" English newsgroup,
insisting, as they normally do, that "American English" is the
definitive form of the language by right of might, and that so-called
"British English" is merely some backwaterish dialect?
No, I think that we do owe it to ourselves not only to differentiate
and discriminate between USAmerican and English but also to maintain a
strong defence against the encroachment of US culture, in the form of
discussing US literature, into English culture newsgroups.
--
David - grough atcost btinternet fullstop com
www grough btinternet co uk/ (where'd me dots go to?)
|
Taking it over how? Has anyone prevented you from saying what you want?
I've been on this group a while and haven't seen anyone insist American
English is the definitive form. Haven't seen anyone discuss US
literature at length, either.
Ivan |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:39 am
Post subject: Re: language.culture.english |
|
|
At 12:45:02 on Thu, 8 Dec 2005, Ivan <vorotyntsev@yahoo.com> wrote in
<1134074702.082735.274840@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>:
| Quote: | Well, then you should get off the Internet. It's an American invention.
|
Wrong. The original Internet was actually the result of joint American
and British work. The WWWeb (which is what most non-Usenauts wrongly
understand by the term "the Internet") was totally and entirely invented
by The Blessed St. Tim Berners-Lee - a Brit.
If he'd been an American, he'd probably have patented it.
As he wasn't, he went for open-source.
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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