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Message |
apprentice
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:17 am
Post subject: meals |
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What do typical meals in England consist of?
Breakfast: still bacon, eggs?
lunch
What is the typical time for lunch?
What is the difference between dinner and supper?
I am looking for some connotations.
Regards,
Pawel
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:27 am
Post subject: Re: meals |
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At 23:17:27 on Thu, 1 Dec 2005, apprentice <mailpawel@wp.pl> wrote in
<a17a6$438f767e$d4ba586d$16847@news.chello.pl>:
| Quote: | What do typical meals in England consist of?
Breakfast: still bacon, eggs?
|
That's nothing to do with language.
| Quote: | lunch
What is the typical time for lunch?
|
That's nothing to do with language.
| Quote: | What is the difference between dinner and supper?
|
That is to do with language. Dinner is the main meal of the day,
whether it is taken in the middle of the day or in the evening.
For those who eat dinner in the middle of the day, the evening meal (a
rather lighter meal) is supper, or sometimes it is known as tea.
For those who eat dinner in the evening, the meal in the middle of the
day (again, a light meal) is lunch. This is short for luncheon, a word
which still survives in various phrases such as luncheon meat. Tea, if
taken, is a light afternoon snack of sandwiches, cake etc.
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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Matti Lamprhey
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:56 am
Post subject: Re: meals |
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"Molly Mockford" <nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote...0
| Quote: | apprentice <mailpawel@wp.pl> wrote:
What do typical meals in England consist of?
Breakfast: still bacon, eggs?
That's nothing to do with language.
|
Try asking at uk.food+drink.misc -- those gluttons will fill you in
alright.
Matti
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Giles Todd
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:51 am
Post subject: Re: meals |
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On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 23:17:27 +0100, "apprentice" <mailpawel@wp.pl>
wrote:
| Quote: | What do typical meals in England consist of?
Breakfast: still bacon, eggs?
lunch
What is the typical time for lunch?
|
Lunchtime.
| Quote: | What is the difference between dinner and supper?
|
That depends on ones social class.
| Quote: | I am looking for some connotations.
|
HTH.
Giles |
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Dave Fawthrop
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:54 pm
Post subject: Re: meals |
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On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 23:17:27 +0100, "apprentice" <mailpawel@wp.pl> wrote:
|
| What do typical meals in England consist of?
| Breakfast: still bacon, eggs?
Almost nobody has bacon and eggs except when staying in an hotel, or for a
treat.
| lunch
|
| What is the typical time for lunch?
Varies with latitude the South have a midday meal later than the North.
I always had difficulty ringing southern people in the early afternoon.
| What is the difference between dinner and supper?
Large parts of the UK never eat dinner, they have tea, after returning from
work.
| I am looking for some connotations.
There are no connections, it all depends which part of the UK you live, and
which socioeconomic group A, B, C, D, E you inhabit, and several other
factors, such as tradition, working hours
The traditional meal times you refer to were used by the Upper Class, and
not many others. The Upper Class who did not have to work are dwindling
into insignificance, even the Royals now have jobs.
My roots are Working Class, but the family is moving up to a C, lower
middle Class.
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> Sick of Premium SMS scams,
SMS marketing, Direct marketing phone calls, Silent phone calls?
Register with http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/
IME they work  |
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Dave Fawthrop
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:55 pm
Post subject: Re: meals |
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On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 22:56:35 -0000, "Matti Lamprhey"
<matti@official-totally-reversed.com> wrote:
| "Molly Mockford" <nospamnobody@mollymockford.me.uk> wrote...0
| > apprentice <mailpawel@wp.pl> wrote:
| >
| > >What do typical meals in England consist of?
| > >Breakfast: still bacon, eggs?
| >
| > That's nothing to do with language.
|
| Try asking at uk.food+drink.misc -- those gluttons will fill you in
| alright.
Ouch!
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> Sick of Premium SMS scams,
SMS marketing, Direct marketing phone calls, Silent phone calls?
Register with http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/
IME they work |
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:02 pm
Post subject: Re: meals |
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apprentice wrote:
| Quote: | Breakfast: still bacon, eggs?
|
Cauliflower puree with jerked pemmican, washed down with a bottle or two
of Entre Deux Jambes.
| Quote: | lunch
alpha pi and a kappa T. |
| Quote: | What is the typical time for lunch?
|
Half an hour.
| Quote: | What is the difference between dinner and supper?
|
Dinner is at 12 o' clock. Supper is before you go to bed, i.e. before 12
0'clock.
Paul Burke |
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Tony Mountifield
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: meals |
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|
In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0512021629060.18889@frank.dcs.qmul.ac.uk>,
Matthew Huntbach <mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> wrote:
| Quote: |
Doesn't calling the evening meal "tea" correlate with calling the mid-day meal
"dinner"? This is more a class thing than a regional thing - northerners
will often claim they eat "breakfast-dinner-tea" and southerners eat
"breakfast-lunch-dinner", but I can assure you that working class southerners
also call their meals "breakfast-dinner-tea". As a southerner from a working
class background, I never used the word "lunch" until I reached adulthood
and moved away from home.
|
As a child in 1960s Hampshire, we always had "breakfast-dinner-tea".
On the occasions when we had our main hot meal at the end of the afternoon
we called it having dinner at tea-time. Midday was always dinner-time.
I think our background would have been called lower-middle-class.
Times have changed, and I now use "lunch" for midday.
| Quote: | "Supper" is an odd word - I'm not sure many people habitually use it.
It's largely been displaced by "dinner" becoming the usual word for
the evening meal, and those who still use "dinner" to mean the mid-day meal
use "tea" to mean the evening meal. If it means anything, I'd say it means
an evening meal taken later than "tea", and also a meal that must definitely
consist of hot food, whereas "tea" could just be bread and cakes.
|
I would use "supper" to mean a small meal taken from mid-evening onwards,
which could quite well consist just of a single sandwich or a bowl of cereal.
Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org |
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Matthew Huntbach
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:45 pm
Post subject: Re: meals |
|
|
On Fri, 2 Dec 2005, Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 23:17:27 +0100, "apprentice" <mailpawel@wp.pl> wrote:
|
| What do typical meals in England consist of?
| Breakfast: still bacon, eggs?
Almost nobody has bacon and eggs except when staying in an hotel, or for a
treat.
|
There was a survey a few years back which gave a figure of about 1% of people
who eat a cooked breakfast of this sort at home on a daily basis. There is
a residual feeling that this is how breakfast *ought* to be, but as you
say, almost nobody really eats like that. However, you might find more people
would eat that sort of breakfast at the weekends, probably late in the morning
and not followed by lunch. Another category who'd eat a cooked breakfast would
be workmen going on to manual labour, who'd typically eat it at a "greasy
spoon" cafe rather than at home.
I disagree with Molly about this not being a language issue. The issue here
is what is meant by the word "breakfast". Consider its usage in the phrase
"all-day breakfast" which you may find on the menu at a greasy spoon cafe.
This suggests that the word "breakfast" on its own can refer to a meal of
bacon and eggs, even though that's not meal most people would eat at
breakfast time.
| Quote: | | lunch
|
| What is the typical time for lunch?
Varies with latitude the South have a midday meal later than the North.
I always had difficulty ringing southern people in the early afternoon.
|
For most people, lunch would be sometime between 12 and 2, wouldn't it?
Again, maybe later at weekends.
| Quote: | | What is the difference between dinner and supper?
Large parts of the UK never eat dinner, they have tea, after returning from
work.
|
Doesn't calling the evening meal "tea" correlate with calling the mid-day meal
"dinner"? This is more a class thing than a regional thing - northerners
will often claim they eat "breakfast-dinner-tea" and southerners eat
"breakfast-lunch-dinner", but I can assure you that working class southerners
also call their meals "breakfast-dinner-tea". As a southerner from a working
class background, I never used the word "lunch" until I reached adulthood
and moved away from home.
"Supper" is an odd word - I'm not sure many people habitually use it.
It's largely been displaced by "dinner" becoming the usual word for
the evening meal, and those who still use "dinner" to mean the mid-day meal
use "tea" to mean the evening meal. If it means anything, I'd say it means
an evening meal taken later than "tea", and also a meal that must definitely
consist of hot food, whereas "tea" could just be bread and cakes.
Matthew Huntbach |
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:59 pm
Post subject: Re: meals |
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|
Matthew Huntbach wrote:
| Quote: |
There was a survey a few years back which gave a figure of about 1% of
people
who eat a cooked breakfast of this sort at home on a daily basis. There is
a residual feeling that this is how breakfast *ought* to be,
|
A visitor to Britain would probably stay in b&b, where they would almost
certainly be offered eggs and bacon for breakfast. Or worse in Scotland.
Paul Burke |
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Phil C.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:34 am
Post subject: Re: meals |
|
|
On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 17:49:41 +0000 (UTC), tony@softins.clara.co.uk
(Tony Mountifield) wrote:
| Quote: | In article <Pine.LNX.4.61.0512021629060.18889@frank.dcs.qmul.ac.uk>,
Matthew Huntbach <mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> wrote:
Doesn't calling the evening meal "tea" correlate with calling the mid-day meal
"dinner"? This is more a class thing than a regional thing - northerners
will often claim they eat "breakfast-dinner-tea" and southerners eat
"breakfast-lunch-dinner", but I can assure you that working class southerners
also call their meals "breakfast-dinner-tea". As a southerner from a working
class background, I never used the word "lunch" until I reached adulthood
and moved away from home.
As a child in 1960s Hampshire, we always had "breakfast-dinner-tea".
On the occasions when we had our main hot meal at the end of the afternoon
we called it having dinner at tea-time. Midday was always dinner-time.
I think our background would have been called lower-middle-class.
Times have changed, and I now use "lunch" for midday.
|
I used the same meanings in Essex. "Lunch" was a mid-morning snack. I
think many of us have moved on not because of any perceived class
terminology but simply because our lifestyles have changed. It's far
more common to eat the main meal in the evening because it fits in
with work patterns. Many more of us also eat out these days - what I'd
eat in a restaurant in the evening could only be called "dinner" -
there's no other word for it.
Usage still varies within my family - we have to specify which meal we
mean by "dinner" to avoid confusion.
| Quote: | "Supper" is an odd word - I'm not sure many people habitually use it.
It's largely been displaced by "dinner" becoming the usual word for
the evening meal, and those who still use "dinner" to mean the mid-day meal
use "tea" to mean the evening meal. If it means anything, I'd say it means
an evening meal taken later than "tea", and also a meal that must definitely
consist of hot food, whereas "tea" could just be bread and cakes.
I would use "supper" to mean a small meal taken from mid-evening onwards,
which could quite well consist just of a single sandwich or a bowl of cereal.
|
I'd use "supper" in that way but I've known those in recent years
who'd use it far more generaly to refer to the big evening meal - I
wonder if it's regional.
The word "brunch" was never used when I was a child but in practice I
only ever eat a "full English breakfast" as a brunch. I couldn't face
another meal for a long time after one of those.
--
Phil C. |
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apprentice
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:39 am
Post subject: Re: meals |
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|
This group is CULTURE/Language, REMEMBER?
Pawel
Użytkownik "apprentice" <mailpawel@wp.pl> napisał w wiadomości
news:a17a6$438f767e$d4ba586d$16847@news.chello.pl...
| Quote: |
What do typical meals in England consist of?
Breakfast: still bacon, eggs?
lunch
What is the typical time for lunch?
What is the difference between dinner and supper?
I am looking for some connotations.
Regards,
Pawel
|
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apprentice
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:43 am
Post subject: Re: meals |
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|
Thanks a lot for your support.
Pawel
Uzytkownik "Matthew Huntbach" <mmh@dcs.qmul.ac.uk> napisal w wiadomosci
news:Pine.LNX.4.61.0512021629060.18889@frank.dcs.qmul.ac.uk...
| Quote: | On Fri, 2 Dec 2005, Dave Fawthrop wrote:
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 23:17:27 +0100, "apprentice" <mailpawel@wp.pl> wrote:
|
| What do typical meals in England consist of?
| Breakfast: still bacon, eggs?
Almost nobody has bacon and eggs except when staying in an hotel, or for
a
treat.
There was a survey a few years back which gave a figure of about 1% of
people
who eat a cooked breakfast of this sort at home on a daily basis. There is
a residual feeling that this is how breakfast *ought* to be, but as you
say, almost nobody really eats like that. However, you might find more
people
would eat that sort of breakfast at the weekends, probably late in the
morning
and not followed by lunch. Another category who'd eat a cooked breakfast
would
be workmen going on to manual labour, who'd typically eat it at a "greasy
spoon" cafe rather than at home.
I disagree with Molly about this not being a language issue. The issue
here
is what is meant by the word "breakfast". Consider its usage in the phrase
"all-day breakfast" which you may find on the menu at a greasy spoon cafe.
This suggests that the word "breakfast" on its own can refer to a meal of
bacon and eggs, even though that's not meal most people would eat at
breakfast time.
| lunch
|
| What is the typical time for lunch?
Varies with latitude the South have a midday meal later than the North.
I always had difficulty ringing southern people in the early afternoon.
For most people, lunch would be sometime between 12 and 2, wouldn't it?
Again, maybe later at weekends.
| What is the difference between dinner and supper?
Large parts of the UK never eat dinner, they have tea, after returning
from
work.
Doesn't calling the evening meal "tea" correlate with calling the mid-day
meal
"dinner"? This is more a class thing than a regional thing - northerners
will often claim they eat "breakfast-dinner-tea" and southerners eat
"breakfast-lunch-dinner", but I can assure you that working class
southerners
also call their meals "breakfast-dinner-tea". As a southerner from a
working
class background, I never used the word "lunch" until I reached adulthood
and moved away from home.
"Supper" is an odd word - I'm not sure many people habitually use it.
It's largely been displaced by "dinner" becoming the usual word for
the evening meal, and those who still use "dinner" to mean the mid-day
meal
use "tea" to mean the evening meal. If it means anything, I'd say it means
an evening meal taken later than "tea", and also a meal that must
definitely
consist of hot food, whereas "tea" could just be bread and cakes.
Matthew Huntbach
|
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Robin Bignall
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:56 am
Post subject: Re: meals |
|
|
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 20:34:14 +0000, Phil C.
<philstoxicwaste@fsmail.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 17:49:41 +0000 (UTC), tony@softins.clara.co.uk
(Tony Mountifield) wrote:
[..]
I would use "supper" to mean a small meal taken from mid-evening onwards,
which could quite well consist just of a single sandwich or a bowl of cereal.
I'd use "supper" in that way but I've known those in recent years
who'd use it far more generaly to refer to the big evening meal - I
wonder if it's regional.
It may be. WIWAL in the Midlands, my mother and I would have a cooked |
dinner in the middle of the day, and tea at teatime -- five pm or so
-- while we listened to Children's Hour on the wireless. Tea would be
a cuppa plus a cake or some fruit. When my father came home from work
he would have a substantial meal, his only cooked one of the day, at
about seven, and he'd call that 'supper'. My mother and I would
accompany him by having something simple such as Welsh rarebit or
sardines on toast. It was not unusual for a working class housewife
to cook twice in one day back in the late 1940s and early 1950s.
--
Robin
Hoddesdon, England |
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Giles Todd
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:53 am
Post subject: Re: meals |
|
|
On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 22:39:54 +0100, "apprentice" <mailpawel@wp.pl>
wrote:
| Quote: | This group is CULTURE/Language, REMEMBER?
|
PREACH, Brother, PREACH! Tell us where we have gone wrong, and
forgive us our sins.
Oh, read novels as well. Lots of them. They will show you how
English is wrote and edditted nowadays, and the better ones might give
you a clue as to how English is used in various manners in many
different social, ethnic, political, local and national contexts.
Demanding a single precise definition for any word you might encounter
is not a good way of learning a language. Languages rarely work like
that.
Giles |
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