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apprentice
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:32 am
Post subject: million |
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How do you English people and the American solve the problem of 1.000.000.000/ 1.000.000.000.000?
milliard/ billion I mean
from Poland
Pawel
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John Hall
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:41 am
Post subject: Re: million |
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In article <9e427$438cc8f6$d4ba586d$8520@news.chello.pl>,
apprentice <mailpawel@wp.pl> writes:
| Quote: |
How do you English people and the American solve the problem of 1.000.000.
000/ 1.000.000.000.000?
milliard/ billion I mean
|
Originally British English used "billion" to mean the second of these.
However the US usage, where "billion" has the first meaning, has now
almost entirely taken over. "milliard" is not in common use.
--
John Hall
"Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes."
Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862) |
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Ivan
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:40 am
Post subject: Re: million |
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John Hall wrote:
| Quote: | In article <9e427$438cc8f6$d4ba586d$8520@news.chello.pl>,
apprentice <mailpawel@wp.pl> writes:
How do you English people and the American solve the problem of 1.000.000.
000/ 1.000.000.000.000?
milliard/ billion I mean
Originally British English used "billion" to mean the second of these.
However the US usage, where "billion" has the first meaning, has now
almost entirely taken over. "milliard" is not in common use.
--
John Hall
"Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes."
Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)
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Milliard... I never heard that one before. Thought you were joking!
Learn something new every day on usenet.
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:32 pm
Post subject: Re: million |
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apprentice wrote:
| Quote: |
How do you English people and the American solve the problem of 1.000.000.
000/ 1.000.000.000.000?
milliard/ billion I mean
|
Milliards are French, and I don't know what they mean.
1 million = 1e6.
1 billion = 1e9.
1 trillion = 1e12.
Then there's the gazillion, which is very large but unspecified, a bit
like one, two, three, many.
We'd be better off with kilopounds (k£), megapounds, gigapounds and
terapounds.
Note the English separators are commas: 1,000,000,000,000.
Paul Burke |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:44 pm
Post subject: Re: million |
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In article <p66ro1hv240lg72h3o4n9eeiepu8o8gnup@4ax.com>, Dave Fawthrop
<invalid@hyphenologist.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:32:02 +0000, Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com
wrote:
| apprentice wrote:
| 1 million = 1e6.
| 1 billion = 1e9.
| 1 trillion = 1e12.
Nothing to do with *e*!
1 million = 10 to the power 6.
1 billion = 10 to the power 9.
1 trillion = 10 to the power 12.
|
Dave, just remind us: what's your degree in?
--
David - grough atcost btinternet fullstop com
www grough btinternet co uk/ (where'd me dots go to?) |
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Dave Fawthrop
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:21 pm
Post subject: Re: million |
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On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:32:02 +0000, Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com> wrote:
| apprentice wrote:
| 1 million = 1e6.
| 1 billion = 1e9.
| 1 trillion = 1e12.
Nothing to do with *e*!
1 million = 10 to the power 6.
1 billion = 10 to the power 9.
1 trillion = 10 to the power 12.
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> Sick of Premium SMS scams,
SMS marketing, Direct marketing phone calls, Silent phone calls?
Register with http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/
IME they work  |
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: million |
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Dave Fawthrop wrote:
Paul Burke wrote:
| Quote: | | 1 million = 1e6.
Nothing to do with *e*!
1 million = 10 to the power 6.
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That's what it means, it's called "scientific notation" and it's not e
the transcendental number but e for exponent (implicitly of 10, as it's
a decimal number). To get e (=2.718..) to the power of 6 you use a
superscript for the 6, or in ASCII text write it e^6.
Well, if you don't like that, maybe the convention used for resistors
etc. will be more congenial:
1k = 1000
1M = 1,000,000
1M56 = 1,560,000
1T0921 = 1,092,100,000,000
Paul Burke |
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John of Aix
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:38 am
Post subject: Re: million |
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Paul Burke wrote:
| Quote: | apprentice wrote:
How do you English people and the American solve the problem of
1.000.000. 000/ 1.000.000.000.000?
milliard/ billion I mean
Milliards are French, and I don't know what they mean.
No milliard is a perfectly good English world and means 1,000,000,000. |
Its use, and I use it, avoids the confusion between a US billion, a
milliard, and a European billion, 1 million million. |
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ADPUF
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:56 am
Post subject: Re: million |
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on 18:38, mercoledì 30 novembre 2005, John of Aix wrote:
| Quote: | Paul Burke wrote:
apprentice wrote:
How do you English people and the American solve the problem
of 1.000.000. 000/ 1.000.000.000.000?
milliard/ billion I mean
Milliards are French, and I don't know what they mean.
No milliard is a perfectly good English world and means
1,000,000,000. Its use, and I use it, avoids the confusion
between a US billion, a milliard, and a European billion, 1
million million.
|
What are they used for? Only for national or big companies
budgets, I think.
In Italy, before the Euro, our national debt was amounting to
hundreds of thousands of milliards of Lire.
(100,000,000,000,000 Lire)
:-(
Now the debt is the same but it looks 3 digit smaller...
:-)
--
°¿° |
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Giles Todd
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: million |
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On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:41:35 +0000, John Hall
<nospam_nov03@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Originally British English used "billion" to mean the second of these.
However the US usage, where "billion" has the first meaning, has now
almost entirely taken over. "milliard" is not in common use.
|
OED2 concerning 'billion':
F. billion, purposely formed in 16th c. to denote the second power of
a million (by substituting bi- prefix2 for the initial letters),
trillion and quadrillion being similarly formed to denote its 3rd and
4th powers. The name appears not to have been adopted in Eng. before
the end of the 17th c.: see quot. from Locke. Subsequently the
application of the word was changed by French arithmeticians, figures
being divided in numeration into groups of threes, instead of sixes,
so that F. billion, trillion, denoted not the second and third powers
of a million, but a thousand millions and a thousand thousand
millions. In the 19th century, the U.S. adopted the French
convention, but Britain retained the original and etymological use
(to which France reverted in 1948).
Since 1951 the U.S. value, a thousand millions, has been
increasingly used in Britain, especially in technical writing and,
more recently, in journalism; but the older sense ‘a million
millions’ is still common.
Giles |
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David
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:09 pm
Post subject: Re: million |
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In article <ti9to1d75sjp0f842nfqfgcoj33mgmkrg8@4ax.com>,
Dave Fawthrop <invalid@hyphenologist.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | Not stating the base is a recipe for problems.
|
Tell me about it! Every time I read "Battle of Hastings, 1066", I have
the devil of a job working out if the writer really means decimal 391
or not.
--
David - grough atcost btinternet fullstop com
www grough btinternet co uk/ (where'd me dots go to?) |
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Tony Mountifield
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:24 pm
Post subject: Re: million |
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In article <3v84uhF14bhu6U1@individual.net>,
Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com> wrote:
| Quote: | David wrote:
Tell me about it! Every time I read "Battle of Hastings, 1066", I have
the devil of a job working out if the writer really means decimal 391
or not.
Or 4198 perhaps.
OK, so why do computer programmers celebrate Christmas at Halloween?
|
Because 25 DEC(imal) = 31 OCT(al)
Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org |
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Dave Fawthrop
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:34 pm
Post subject: Re: million |
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On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:44:33 +0000 (UTC), David <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
| In article <p66ro1hv240lg72h3o4n9eeiepu8o8gnup@4ax.com>, Dave Fawthrop
| <invalid@hyphenologist.co.uk.invalid> wrote:
| > On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:32:02 +0000, Paul Burke <paul@scazon.com>
| > wrote:
|
| > | apprentice wrote:
|
| > | 1 million = 1e6.
| > | 1 billion = 1e9.
| > | 1 trillion = 1e12.
|
| > Nothing to do with *e*!
|
| > 1 million = 10 to the power 6.
| > 1 billion = 10 to the power 9.
| > 1 trillion = 10 to the power 12.
|
| Dave, just remind us: what's your degree in?
Computing, where we use bases 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, and 64 regularly.
I have used base 7 and other unusual bases on occasion.
2 to the power 10 is very important.
Yes also base 10 occasionally.
Not stating the base is a recipe for problems.
--
Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> Sick of Premium SMS scams,
SMS marketing, Direct marketing phone calls, Silent phone calls?
Register with http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/
IME they work |
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:41 pm
Post subject: Re: million |
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Dave Fawthrop wrote:
| Quote: | Not stating the base is a recipe for problems.
|
I don't know what language you use, but all compilers I've come accross
assume base 10 unless you state otherwise. FORTH being a buf=gger in
this respect, because it starts off as 10, but a statement
14 BASE
converts the base to 14, which it remains at until you say otherwise. If
someone put that way back in another module, you're stuffed.
Other compilers have default base 10, but if you are using other bases
you say so, as in 0x1234 being hexadecimal 1234.
The scientific notation is a common standard. In other words, 1e6 states
the base. It's 10.
Paul Burke. |
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Paul Burke
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:25 pm
Post subject: Re: million |
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David wrote:
| Quote: |
Tell me about it! Every time I read "Battle of Hastings, 1066", I have
the devil of a job working out if the writer really means decimal 391
or not.
|
Or 4198 perhaps.
OK, so why do computer programmers celebrate Christmas at Halloween?
Paul Burke |
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