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John Briggs
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:40 am
Post subject: How do you address a female surgeon? |
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British surgeons are notorious for insisting on being called "Mr", whilst
ordinary medics insist on being called "Dr". This despite the standard
medical degree being MB BS (and variants), and the MD being a 'higher
doctorate' and only awarded to advanced and distinguished medics - such as
consultant surgeons... So most of those calling themselves "Dr" don't have
a doctorate, and the most important of those who do call themselves "Mr"...
But what about female surgeons?
--
John Briggs
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Mike Stevens
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:00 am
Post subject: Re: How do you address a female surgeon? |
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John Briggs wrote:
| Quote: | British surgeons are notorious for insisting on being called "Mr",
whilst ordinary medics insist on being called "Dr". This despite the
standard medical degree being MB BS (and variants), and the MD being
a 'higher doctorate' and only awarded to advanced and distinguished
medics - such as consultant surgeons... So most of those calling
themselves "Dr" don't have a doctorate, and the most important of
those who do call themselves "Mr"...
But what about female surgeons?
|
Legend has it (probably apocryphally) that there were once a maried couple
who were both in the medical profession and who wished to be known as "Mr &
Dr <surname>", "Mr" being the wife, who was a surgeon.
--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II - Felis Catus III real soon now!
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man. |
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Ivan
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: How do you address a female surgeon? |
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Very carefully!
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Erick Andrews
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:00 am
Post subject: Re: How do you address a female surgeon? |
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On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 00:00:10 UTC, "Mike Stevens" <michael.stevens@which.net> wrote:
| Quote: | John Briggs wrote:
British surgeons are notorious for insisting on being called "Mr",
whilst ordinary medics insist on being called "Dr". This despite the
standard medical degree being MB BS (and variants), and the MD being
a 'higher doctorate' and only awarded to advanced and distinguished
medics - such as consultant surgeons... So most of those calling
themselves "Dr" don't have a doctorate, and the most important of
those who do call themselves "Mr"...
But what about female surgeons?
Legend has it (probably apocryphally) that there were once a maried couple
who were both in the medical profession and who wished to be known as "Mr &
Dr <surname>", "Mr" being the wife, who was a surgeon.
|
That seems a bit odd. Was she a 19th C. surgeon? Got any attributions, even
fiction, like from Harley St.? Or better 221B Baker St.?
--
Best,
Erick Andrews
delete bogus to reply |
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Tony Mountifield
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:45 pm
Post subject: Re: How do you address a female surgeon? |
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In article <bsPef.11313$8R6.11279@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>,
John Briggs <john.briggs4@ntlworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: | British surgeons are notorious for insisting on being called "Mr", whilst
ordinary medics insist on being called "Dr".
|
My understanding (my wife is a nurse), is that this is a convention rather
than any kind of insistence. Surgeons earn the title "Mr" when they reach
consultant level. Physicians (medical) are always "Dr".
| Quote: | But what about female surgeons?
|
I believe female consultant surgeons use "Miss" or "Mrs" as appropriate.
They could probably also choose "Ms" if they were so inclined.
Cheers
Tony
--
Tony Mountifield
Work: tony@softins.co.uk - http://www.softins.co.uk
Play: tony@mountifield.org - http://tony.mountifield.org |
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Mike Stevens
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: How do you address a female surgeon? |
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Erick Andrews wrote:
| Quote: | On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 00:00:10 UTC, "Mike Stevens"
michael.stevens@which.net> wrote:
Legend has it (probably apocryphally) that there were once a maried
couple who were both in the medical profession and who wished to be
known as "Mr & Dr <surname>", "Mr" being the wife, who was a
surgeon.
That seems a bit odd. Was she a 19th C. surgeon? Got any
attributions, even fiction, like from Harley St.? Or better 221B
Baker St.?
|
All I can say is that somebody (I can't remeber who or where) told me that
they knew the people concerned, so we're in classic Urban Myth territory.
Definitely not 19th C, allegedly current-day. But I think I can understand
it - some people do that sort of thing out of sheer idiosycracy, like a
couple of (very real) friends of mine who, just before they married, told
everyone that she would keep her maiden name, but he would answer to either
surname. In practice most of us simply did whatever the spoken equivalent
is of hyphenating the two surnames.
--
Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II - Felis Catus III real soon now!
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man. |
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Einde O'Callaghan
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:37 pm
Post subject: Re: How do you address a female surgeon? |
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John Briggs wrote:
| Quote: | British surgeons are notorious for insisting on being called "Mr", whilst
ordinary medics insist on being called "Dr".
|
This apparently has its origins in the fact that originally in England
(and seemingly also in Scotland and Ireland) medical doctors had a
theoretical education at a university level institution whereas surgeons
8and dental surgeons) went through an apprenticeship. Teh
university-trained doctors were very hot on their academic status and
refused to recognise surgeons as anything other than skilled craftsmen
and denied them the honorary title "doctor", which normally goes to a
medical practitioner,even if his degree is a bachelors or a masters.
When at a later stage becoming a surgeon involved an academic education
the English medical fraternity offered to recognise that surgeons were
their equals and offered to confer them the honarary title "doctor"
similar to other doctors of medicine the College of Surgeons rejected
this belated attempt to recognise that they were also members of the
medical fraternity and not simply skilled craftsmen and refused the
honorific title "doctor" as a sign of what we might call reverse
snobbery. Basically they said if we weren't good enough for you before
we are quite happy to distinguish ourselves from you still.
An eminent surgeon in a hospital I worked in many years ago told me this
to explain why British surgeons got annoyed when the were addressed as
"doctor".
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan
P.S. I believe the answer to the question posed in the original post is
that at least younger female surgeons in Britain prefer to be addressed
to as "Ms". |
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Molly Mockford
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:39 am
Post subject: Re: How do you address a female surgeon? |
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At 15:37:07 on Thu, 17 Nov 2005, Einde O'Callaghan
<einde.ocallaghan@planet-interkom.de> wrote in
<3u3iqaFv93n7U1@individual.net>:
| Quote: | This apparently has its origins in the fact that originally in England
(and seemingly also in Scotland and Ireland) medical doctors had a
theoretical education at a university level institution whereas
surgeons 8and dental surgeons) went through an apprenticeship. Teh
university-trained doctors were very hot on their academic status and
refused to recognise surgeons as anything other than skilled craftsmen
|
Indeed, surgeons evolved from barbers; the barber would be the chap you
would go to either for a shave (hence the name) or for a bit of
blood-letting (a haircut was rather less probable in those days), and
the spirally-striped traditional barber's pole represents an arm with
blood running down it from this procedure. And Sweeney Todd was not the
only surgeon-butcher!
--
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.) |
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Erick Andrews
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:42 am
Post subject: Re: How do you address a female surgeon? |
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On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:15:38 UTC, "Mike Stevens" <michael.stevens@which.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Erick Andrews wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 00:00:10 UTC, "Mike Stevens"
michael.stevens@which.net> wrote:
Legend has it (probably apocryphally) that there were once a maried
couple who were both in the medical profession and who wished to be
known as "Mr & Dr <surname>", "Mr" being the wife, who was a
surgeon.
That seems a bit odd. Was she a 19th C. surgeon? Got any
attributions, even fiction, like from Harley St.? Or better 221B
Baker St.?
All I can say is that somebody (I can't remeber who or where) told me that
they knew the people concerned, so we're in classic Urban Myth territory.
Definitely not 19th C, allegedly current-day. But I think I can understand
it - some people do that sort of thing out of sheer idiosycracy, like a
couple of (very real) friends of mine who, just before they married, told
everyone that she would keep her maiden name, but he would answer to either
surname. In practice most of us simply did whatever the spoken equivalent
is of hyphenating the two surnames.
|
Your explanation is interesting -- not that I haven't heard of idiosyncratic
folks before, but rather less these days.
At the risk of being slightly OT, I wonder if there is a UK equivalent to
http://www.docboard.org ?? ...which is an attempt to vet the practitioners.
--
| Quote: | Mike Stevens
narrowboat Felis Catus II - Felis Catus III real soon now!
Web site www.mike-stevens.co.uk
No man is an island. So is Man.
|
--
Best,
Erick Andrews
delete bogus to reply |
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