| Author |
Message |
Xah Lee
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:29 am
Post subject: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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| Quote: | From Titus Andronicus, of Shakespeare (act 3, scene 2, last paragraph):
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TITUS. Come, take away. Lavinia, go with me;
I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee
Sad stories chanced in the times of old.
Come, boy, and go with me; thy sight is young,
And thou shalt read when mine begin to dazzle.
--------
note his creative break of grammar.
How does one explain the use of “I'll to thy closet”?
PS ok i got it. The “go” is moved to the second clause: I'll to thy
closet, and GO read with thee.
on the other hand, the grammarian's version:
“I'll go to thy closet, and read with thee.” or
“I'll go with thee to thy closet, and read”
are both ineffective. (the art here that is critical is to impress upon
the readers before any rational interpretation: “with thee”.. (as
opposed to: “thy closet”, or “read”.)
Xah
xah@xahlee.org
∑ http://xahlee.org/ |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:36 am
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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Xah Lee wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | How does one explain the use of "I'll to thy closet"?
PS ok i got it. The "go" is moved to the second clause: I'll to thy
closet, and GO read with thee.
on the other hand, the grammarian's version:
"I'll go to thy closet, and read with thee." or
"I'll go with thee to thy closet, and read"
are both ineffective. (the art here that is critical is to impress
upon the readers before any rational interpretation: "with thee".
(as
opposed to: "thy closet", or "read".)
|
No, that's not right. "I'll to bed" is normal colloquial English of
the period. There is no need for "go" at all.
Do stop trying to teach me my own language, Xah.
--
Mike. |
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:20 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 23:36:58 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Xah Lee wrote:
[...]
How does one explain the use of "I'll to thy closet"?
PS ok i got it. The "go" is moved to the second clause: I'll to thy
closet, and GO read with thee.
on the other hand, the grammarian's version:
"I'll go to thy closet, and read with thee." or
"I'll go with thee to thy closet, and read"
are both ineffective. (the art here that is critical is to impress
upon the readers before any rational interpretation: "with thee".
(as
opposed to: "thy closet", or "read".)
No, that's not right. "I'll to bed" is normal colloquial English of
the period. There is no need for "go" at all.
|
And even today "I'm off to bed".
| Quote: |
Do stop trying to teach me my own language, Xah.
|
Not to mention that this language is 400 years old, and it takes native speakers
a few pages / minutes to "get their ear in".
--
Jim
the Yorkshire polymoth |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 23:36:58 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Xah Lee wrote:
[...]
How does one explain the use of "I'll to thy closet"?
PS ok i got it. The "go" is moved to the second clause: I'll to thy
closet, and GO read with thee.
on the other hand, the grammarian's version:
"I'll go to thy closet, and read with thee." or
"I'll go with thee to thy closet, and read"
are both ineffective. (the art here that is critical is to impress
upon the readers before any rational interpretation: "with thee".
(as
opposed to: "thy closet", or "read".)
No, that's not right. "I'll to bed" is normal colloquial English of
the period. There is no need for "go" at all.
Do stop trying to teach me my own language, Xah.
|
Which could be worded "...us our own language, Xah" since he addressed
his post to no particular person.
--
Charles Riggs |
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FB
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 23:36:58 -0000, Mike Lyle wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | No, that's not right. "I'll to bed" is normal colloquial English of
the period. There is no need for "go" at all.
|
Something of the sort still occurs in German, doesn't it?
[...]
Bye, FB
--
http://groups.google.it/group/it.hobby.cucina/msg/b636692300238837?hl=it&
(da it.hobby.cucina) |
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Twittering One
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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A well-know language device,
the name of which escapes me at the moment. |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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Xah Lee <xah@xahlee.org> spake thusly:
| Quote: | From Titus Andronicus, of Shakespeare (act 3, scene 2, last paragraph):
TITUS. Come, take away. Lavinia, go with me;
I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee
Sad stories chanced in the times of old.
Come, boy, and go with me; thy sight is young,
And thou shalt read when mine begin to dazzle.
--------
note his creative break of grammar.
How does one explain the use of ??I'll to thy closet??
|
Nobody's mentioned John Masefield. "blown spume", there's a phrase.
I must down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by,
And the wheel's kick and the wind's song and the white sail's
shaking,
And a grey mist on the sea's face, and a grey dawn breaking.
I must down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.
I must down to the seas again, to the vagrant gypsy life,
To the gull's way and the whale's way where the wind's like a
whetted knife;
And all I ask is a merry yarn from a laughing fellow-rover
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick's over.
or, of course, Spike Milligan, who replaced the elided "go":
I must go down to the sea again, to the lonely sea and the sky;
I left my shoes and socks there - I wonder if they're dry?
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Twittering One
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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My working memory rather overloaded ...
"Threshold and verge
I used these two separate terms in order to avoid confusing two
different concepts. 'Threshold' is the term I use to designate what may
be built-in restrictions as to what can enter a particular form of
consciousness. Sensory thresholds are certainly built in, it seems, to
the structure of the nervous system. And psychic and spiritual
thresholds may proceed from the entelechy as part of a developmental
phase and so in that sense they may also built in, even if later they
can be altered by self-development.
A vertical threshold determines, for example, what is above or below
the range of human hearing. A horizontal threshold determines the
extent of hearing within its band - for example the distance beyond
which I cannot hear certain sounds.
'Verge' is the term I use to designate the boundary to consciousness
that is set up by all kinds of processes such as selective inattention,
identification, forgetting, repression, blocking, including thresholds,
and including the guardian's self-delusion. So 'verge' is the
inclusive, generic term, of which 'threshold' is a species; and there
is the de facto verge of the guardian and a deeper one set up by the
processes the guardian deludes itself about."
http://www.human-inquiry.com/conuncon.htm |
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Laura F. Spira
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Xah Lee <xah@xahlee.org> spake thusly:
From Titus Andronicus, of Shakespeare (act 3, scene 2, last paragraph):
TITUS. Come, take away. Lavinia, go with me;
I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee
Sad stories chanced in the times of old.
Come, boy, and go with me; thy sight is young,
And thou shalt read when mine begin to dazzle.
--------
note his creative break of grammar.
How does one explain the use of ??I'll to thy closet??
Nobody's mentioned John Masefield. "blown spume", there's a phrase.
I must down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by,
And the wheel's kick and the wind's song and the white sail's
shaking,
And a grey mist on the sea's face, and a grey dawn breaking.
I must down to the seas again, for the call of the running tide
Is a wild call and a clear call that may not be denied;
And all I ask is a windy day with the white clouds flying,
And the flung spray and the blown spume, and the sea-gulls crying.
I must down to the seas again, to the vagrant gypsy life,
To the gull's way and the whale's way where the wind's like a
whetted knife;
And all I ask is a merry yarn from a laughing fellow-rover
And quiet sleep and a sweet dream when the long trick's over.
or, of course, Spike Milligan, who replaced the elided "go":
I must go down to the sea again, to the lonely sea and the sky;
I left my shoes and socks there - I wonder if they're dry?
|
There was a very good play about Masefield on R4 yesterday afternoon.
This was apparently one of his least favourite poems.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email) |
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Twittering One
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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Generosity ~ Willingness to give what is needed,
Share knowledge, offer help over hurdles,
Or give of one's time freely, if need arises.
Nobility of character. Pleasingly large size or quantity.
A generous, kind, or noble act. |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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Twittering One wrote:
| Quote: | My working memory rather overloaded ...
[...] |
Yes, I noticed that. Wrong group, wrong thread. But I'd like you to
meet Xah Lee.
--
Mike. |
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--the Creeper loves gekko
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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"Twittering One" <mournenwould@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1131545848.494395.234580@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | A well-know language device,
the name of which escapes me at the moment.
*Twittering One*! ! ! |
Please forgive my brutishness.
--
Robbie |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:10 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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|
Laura F. Spira <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> spake thusly:
| Quote: | the Omrud wrote:
Xah Lee <xah@xahlee.org> spake thusly:
|
....
| Quote: | How does one explain the use of ??I'll to thy closet??
Nobody's mentioned John Masefield. "blown spume", there's a phrase.
I must down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by,
|
....
| Quote: | There was a very good play about Masefield on R4 yesterday afternoon.
This was apparently one of his least favourite poems.
|
That only goes to show that I am a poetry philistine, which position
I am honoured to inhabit.
I don't often listen to the plays in the afternoon when I'm working
at home because they require too much attention. Radio 3 is more
common at my desk, but I did just hear today's play because I went
out to get petrol (87.9p per litre).
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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JF
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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X-No-Archive: yes
In message <1131546191.458468.282610@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
Twittering One <mournenwould@aol.com> writes
| Quote: |
'Verge' is the term I use to designate the boundary to consciousness
that is set up by all kinds of processes such as selective inattention,
identification, forgetting, repression, blocking, including thresholds,
and including the guardian's self-delusion. So 'verge' is the
inclusive, generic term, of which 'threshold' is a species; and there
is the de facto verge of the guardian and a deeper one set up by the
processes the guardian deludes itself about."
|
Verge is usually the side of the road. Gobbledegook is excellent term
for stuff that verges on the ridiculous. Selective inattention indeed.
--
James Follett |
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Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Shakespeare: I'll to thy closet, and go read with thee |
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|
You're not crazy after all, maybe you're making this all up...
Twittering One wrote:
| Quote: | My working memory rather overloaded ...
"Threshold and verge
I used these two separate terms in order to avoid confusing two
different concepts. 'Threshold' is the term I use to designate what may
be built-in restrictions as to what can enter a particular form of
consciousness. Sensory thresholds are certainly built in, it seems, to
the structure of the nervous system. And psychic and spiritual
thresholds may proceed from the entelechy as part of a developmental
phase and so in that sense they may also built in, even if later they
can be altered by self-development.
A vertical threshold determines, for example, what is above or below
the range of human hearing. A horizontal threshold determines the
extent of hearing within its band - for example the distance beyond
which I cannot hear certain sounds.
'Verge' is the term I use to designate the boundary to consciousness
that is set up by all kinds of processes such as selective inattention,
identification, forgetting, repression, blocking, including thresholds,
and including the guardian's self-delusion. So 'verge' is the
inclusive, generic term, of which 'threshold' is a species; and there
is the de facto verge of the guardian and a deeper one set up by the
processes the guardian deludes itself about."
http://www.human-inquiry.com/conuncon.htm |
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