| Author |
Message |
Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:02 am
Post subject: "aljofifa" and "jo(c|s|z)ifa" [was" Re: zap] |
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On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 21:31:21 +0100, Ross Howard
<gguiri@yahoo.com> said:
[...]
| Quote: | (I had found "aljofifo" -- which I may not be spelling quite
correctly -- for "mop" in a Spanish dictionary I bought
during World II. I've never found a Spanish speaker who
knew about it, and I don't find it now in _OSD_.)
|
I realize now it seems I've misremembered the spelling,
"aljofifa" being correct.
| Quote: | I think a word that might could be related to what you're
looking for is *jocifa*,[1], which is still used by some
older people in Andalusia, although not for a
stringy-bits-on-the-end-of-a-stick-type mop, but rather for
the cloth that's used for good old hands-and-knees
scrubbing (so "floor rag" might be a better translation for
it than "mop").
|
I would be willing to believe they're close to being the
same word, the main difference being that "aljofifa"
retained the Arabic article "al" while "jocifa" did not.
And stranger things have probably happened than a shift from
"c" to "f".
I see now that Google gives me 240 hits on "aljofifa". One
of them, at
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/1207/diccionario.htm
, is headed "Vocabulario de Huelva", The page heading is
"Diccionario Onudense". It has the definition
Aljofifa: Bayeta, paño basto de lana para limpiar el
suelo.
That seems to be saying that an aljofifa is a coarse woolen
cloth used to clean the floor. That's essentially what
you've said a "jocifa" is.
As you, Ross, undoubtedly know, Heulva is a city in
Andalusia, and "Onudense" means "from Huelva" (for some
reason).
| Quote: | [1. The correct spelling may be with a "z" instead of a "c"; my wife,
although familiar with it from her grandmother, can't remember ever
having seen it written, and it's not in the OSD or the others I have
to hand..]
|
Googling on "aljofifa jocifa OR jozifa OR josifa" gives me
45 hits. Scanning the abstracts I gather that the spellings
"jocifa" and "josifa" are both well-known, and at least one
of the hits has the spelling "jozifa".
Aha ... one hit, http://www.tobarbate.com/atutue/DICCIO.htm
, has the definitions
Jocifa: De aljofifa. Paño para fregar el suelo. Por
extensión la actual fregona.
Jocifar: . De aljofifar. Fregar el suelo, pasar la
fregona.
After I'd occasionally wondered about "aljofifa" for about
three-score years, you've put me on the road to
enlightenment. Thank you very much. |
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Isabelle Cecchini
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:38 am
Post subject: Re: zap |
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Donna Richoux a écrit :
| Quote: | Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote:
[...] |
| Quote: | _The Oxford Hachette French Dictionary_ does indeed have a
verb "zapper", meaning to flick through TV channels, and it
has no noun "zapper". For the English noun "zapper" they
give the French noun "télécommande".
Oh, okay, verbs are different from nouns. How does one conjugate a
French verb that looks like "zapper" -- "je zappe, tu zappes, il zappe"?
We do have "to zap" in English, of course, including the meaning of
using a remote control device.
|
Your conjugation of the French verb "zapper" is perfect. As for the
remote control, the English "zapper", while "télécommande" is indeed
widely used, the more familiar "zapette" is very often heard, even if it
hasn't found its way to the dictionaries yet.
--
Isabelle Cecchini |
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Ben Zimmer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: zap |
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Donna Richoux wrote:
| Quote: | Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> wrote:
I would also like to know its origin if any
Evidently, onomatopoeic, from the sound of a gun being fired.
Evidently not -- guns go "bang", not "zap". Possibly from the
sound of a science-fictional ray gun, as suggested elsewhere
in the thread.
Are you gonna scoff at Merriam-Webster? They say, for the origins of
"zap":
Function: interjection
Etymology: imitative
Date: 1929
1 -- used to express a sound made by or as if by a gun
and then they go on with other meanings and functions (verb, noun).
Silly me, I assume this means an employee there actually found books and
magazines, from 1929 and thereafter, where "zap" was clearly used to
represent the sound of a gun. The bullet whizzing past the ear, perhaps,
or thwacking into a wall. Machine-gun fire? Or even the noises boys make
at play, imitating guns.
|
OED specifies that it's imitative of the sound of a *ray* gun, which as
Mark said is a sci-fi weapon. The 1929 cite is from an installment of
"Buck Rogers 2429 A.D." syndicated in the Washington Post:
-----
1929 P. F. NOWLAN in Washington Post 7 May 16/3 Ahead of me was one of
those golden dragon Mongols, with a deadly disintegrator ray...
Br-r-rr-r-z-zzz-zap.
----- |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: zap |
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|
Mark Brader;
| Quote: | ... guns go "bang", not "zap".
|
Donna Richoux:
| Quote: | Are you gonna scoff at Merriam-Webster? They say, for the origins of
"zap":
Function: interjection
Etymology: imitative
Date: 1929
1 -- used to express a sound made by or as if by a gun
|
Well, I'm astonished. I've never heard it used to express a sound
made by or as if by a gun.
However, if you're looking at the online MW, that's abridged, and
maybe the "imitative" part doesn't mean what the definition suggests.
Turn to the AHD4 and *its* sense 1a is "To destroy or kill with a
burst of gunfire, flame, or electric current." Note the electric
current. That fits better.
Ben Zimmer:
| Quote: | OED specifies that it's imitative of the sound of a *ray* gun, which as
Mark said is a sci-fi weapon. The 1929 cite is from an installment of
"Buck Rogers 2429 A.D." syndicated in the Washington Post:
-----
1929 P. F. NOWLAN in Washington Post 7 May 16/3 Ahead of me was one of
those golden dragon Mongols, with a deadly disintegrator ray...
Br-r-rr-r-z-zzz-zap.
-----
|
*Aha!* Better yet.
--
Mark Brader | The way the Giants are playing this season, Newton
Toronto | would have been better off standing on the wings
msb@vex.net | of the Cardinals. --Richard Tanzer |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: zap |
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|
<hyx1999@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131455272.053312.235460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | what could it mean in colloquial speech except for its literal meaning?
|
There have been two dozen followup posts but the OP never
returned to tell us what the "literal meaning" of zap might be.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:39 pm
Post subject: Re: zap |
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Ben Zimmer <bgzimmer@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
| Quote: | Donna Richoux wrote:
Are you gonna scoff at Merriam-Webster? They say, for the origins of
"zap":
Function: interjection
Etymology: imitative
Date: 1929
1 -- used to express a sound made by or as if by a gun
and then they go on with other meanings and functions (verb, noun).
Silly me, I assume this means an employee there actually found books and
magazines, from 1929 and thereafter, where "zap" was clearly used to
represent the sound of a gun. The bullet whizzing past the ear, perhaps,
or thwacking into a wall. Machine-gun fire? Or even the noises boys make
at play, imitating guns.
OED specifies that it's imitative of the sound of a *ray* gun, which as
Mark said is a sci-fi weapon. The 1929 cite is from an installment of
"Buck Rogers 2429 A.D." syndicated in the Washington Post:
-----
1929 P. F. NOWLAN in Washington Post 7 May 16/3 Ahead of me was one of
those golden dragon Mongols, with a deadly disintegrator ray...
Br-r-rr-r-z-zzz-zap.
-----
|
Well, that's certainly clear enough. Unless there's something else going
on we don't know about, M-W goofed. I'll send them a note and maybe
they'll look into it. It doesn't help that they don't have an entry for
"ray gun" (or "ray-gun" or "raygun") -- I imagine that means they would
not go for the simple fix of changing "gun" to "ray gun."
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: zap |
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On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 22:20:58 +0100, trio@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
wrote:
| Quote: | Mark Brader <msb@vex.net> wrote:
I would also like to know its origin if any
Evidently, onomatopoeic, from the sound of a gun being fired.
Evidently not -- guns go "bang", not "zap". Possibly from the
sound of a science-fictional ray gun, as suggested elsewhere
in the thread.
Are you gonna scoff at Merriam-Webster? They say, for the origins of
"zap":
Function: interjection
Etymology: imitative
Date: 1929
1 -- used to express a sound made by or as if by a gun
and then they go on with other meanings and functions (verb, noun).
|
Then I must scoff at Merriam-Webster. Ray guns, some of them, make a
zap sound in the movies, with ordinary guns, on set and off, going
bang.
--
Charles Riggs |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: zap |
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On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 20:35:46 -0500, "Don Phillipson"
<d.phillipson@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:
| Quote: | hyx1999@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1131455272.053312.235460@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
what could it mean in colloquial speech except for its literal meaning?
There have been two dozen followup posts but the OP never
returned to tell us what the "literal meaning" of zap might be.
|
First I'd want him to tell us what literal meaning means.
--
Charles Riggs |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:12 pm
Post subject: Re: "aljofifa" and "jo(c|s|z)ifa" [was" Re: zap] |
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On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 23:02:59 GMT, Bob Cunningham
<exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrought:
| Quote: | After I'd occasionally wondered about "aljofifa" for about
three-score years, you've put me on the road to
enlightenment. Thank you very much.
|
*De nada* -- but the thanks should really go to my late
grandmother-in-law and her knees!
There are quite a lot of weird and wonderful Moorish-rooted words for
household items that are still hanging on in there in Andalusian
dialect, but many of them -- like *ajofifa/jocifa* -- are falling into
disuse as technologies change. I doubt that even the wrinkliest,
blackest-clad, most traditional old widow actually gets down on her
hands and knees to scrub the floor these days.
--
Ross Howard |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:25 pm
Post subject: Re: zap |
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|
Charles Riggs wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | Then I must scoff at Merriam-Webster. Ray guns, some of them, make
a
zap sound in the movies, with ordinary guns, on set and off, going
bang.
|
A footnote. WIWAL our imaginary guns went "bang!"; but by the
'eighties my space-age son and others blasted one another with
weapons which went "pioo!"
--
Mike. |
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:36 pm
Post subject: Re: zap |
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the Omrud skrev:
| Quote: | Anyway(s), the only thing I remember about the operating system was
that there were two commands for deleting files. "KILL X" deleted
the file X, but "MASSACRE" deleted the whole directory.
|
Was the format command then ARMAGEDDON?
--
Bertel
Denmark |
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JF
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:56 pm
Post subject: Re: zap |
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In message <3tebngFs3bgqU1@individual.net>, Mike Lyle
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> writes
| Quote: | Charles Riggs wrote:
[...]
Then I must scoff at Merriam-Webster. Ray guns, some of them, make
a
zap sound in the movies, with ordinary guns, on set and off, going
bang.
A footnote. WIWAL our imaginary guns went "bang!"; but by the
'eighties my space-age son and others blasted one another with
weapons which went "pioo!"
|
Nothing imaginary about the maroons some clown was letting off near my
house on Saturday night! Normally Dylan and Thomas take such noises in
their stride, but not those babies.
--
James Follett |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:00 pm
Post subject: Re: zap |
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Bertel Lund Hansen <nospamfilius@lundhansen.dk> spake thusly:
| Quote: | the Omrud skrev:
Anyway(s), the only thing I remember about the operating system was
that there were two commands for deleting files. "KILL X" deleted
the file X, but "MASSACRE" deleted the whole directory.
Was the format command then ARMAGEDDON?
|
No, that just brought about the end of the world.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:15 pm
Post subject: Re: zap |
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JF <jf@NOSPAMmarage.demon.co.uk> spake thusly:
| Quote: | In message <3tebngFs3bgqU1@individual.net>, Mike Lyle
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> writes
Charles Riggs wrote:
[...]
Then I must scoff at Merriam-Webster. Ray guns, some of them, make
a
zap sound in the movies, with ordinary guns, on set and off, going
bang.
A footnote. WIWAL our imaginary guns went "bang!"; but by the
'eighties my space-age son and others blasted one another with
weapons which went "pioo!"
Nothing imaginary about the maroons some clown was letting off near my
house on Saturday night! Normally Dylan and Thomas take such noises in
their stride, but not those babies.
|
We got home late on Saturday night to find that our alarm had been
triggered while we were out (it resets after about 10 minutes). I
reckon a nearby firework must have rattled the windows sufficiently
to set off the break-glass detectors.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Donna Richoux
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:32 pm
Post subject: Re: zap |
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Donna Richoux <trio@euronet.nl> wrote:
| Quote: | Well, that's certainly clear enough. Unless there's something else going
on we don't know about, M-W goofed. I'll send them a note and maybe
they'll look into it.
|
Routine acknowledgement received:
From: "Neil Serven" <nserven@merriam-webster.com>
Subject: RE: the origin of "zap"
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 16:28:44 -0500
Thank you for writing. We will make a note of your comments
regarding the dictionary's entry for "zap" and consider them toward
possible future revision.
Sincerely,
Neil S. Serven
Merriam-Webster Editorial Department
--
Best -- Donna Richoux |
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