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Al Deveron
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:00 pm
Post subject: Promethean? |
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I'm baffled... I have been reading a book about Native American
spirituality vs. Western civilization's money-oriented values. The
author puts forward his concept that there are basically two kinds of
people on the planet: "Reverential Man" and "Promethean Man".
Reverential Man, he explains, is the person who reveres nature and
realizes the importance of preserving it. Promethean Man feels an
empty longing inside himself because he has lost his connection to,
and closeness with, nature. He seeks to relieve his inner hunger and
longing by consuming the world around him. Western civilization, he
proposes, is basically a civilization of Promethean Man, destroying
nature in its path as it spreads, thereby ensuring its own eventual
self-destruction, unless it can reverse its outlook and learn to
revere and preserve the natural aspects of the planet.
I looked up "Promethean" in the dictionary, but the definition seems
to contradict the usage I had been reading. I am trying to relate the
following definitions the above-mentioned "Promethean Man":
(1) Having a life-giving quality; inspiring.
(2) Boldly creative, original, or life-giving.
(3) Creative and imaginatively original
Even more confusing to me is that the name Prometheus is supposed to
come from "Prometheus", (forethoughtful).
Can anyone explain or clarify?
Thank you!
Al-D
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Nate Branscom
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Promethean? |
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Al Deveron wrote:
| Quote: | I'm baffled... I have been reading a book about Native American
spirituality vs. Western civilization's money-oriented values. The
author puts forward his concept that there are basically two kinds of
people on the planet: "Reverential Man" and "Promethean Man".
Reverential Man, he explains, is the person who reveres nature and
realizes the importance of preserving it. Promethean Man feels an
empty longing inside himself because he has lost his connection to,
and closeness with, nature. He seeks to relieve his inner hunger and
longing by consuming the world around him. Western civilization, he
proposes, is basically a civilization of Promethean Man, destroying
nature in its path as it spreads, thereby ensuring its own eventual
self-destruction, unless it can reverse its outlook and learn to
revere and preserve the natural aspects of the planet.
I looked up "Promethean" in the dictionary, but the definition seems
to contradict the usage I had been reading. I am trying to relate the
following definitions the above-mentioned "Promethean Man":
(1) Having a life-giving quality; inspiring.
(2) Boldly creative, original, or life-giving.
(3) Creative and imaginatively original
Even more confusing to me is that the name Prometheus is supposed to
come from "Prometheus", (forethoughtful).
Can anyone explain or clarify?
Thank you!
Al-D
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Prometheus made man out of clay and later stole fire from Zeus to give
to man. So, I don't get how Promethean Man can be selfish. I believe
the author is just wrong in his theoretical tripe.
-- Nate |
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Lars Eighner
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Promethean? |
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In our last episode, <43707c2f.3442833@news.individual.net>, the
lovely and talented Al Deveron broadcast on alt.usage.english:
| Quote: | I'm baffled... I have been reading a book about Native American
spirituality vs. Western civilization's money-oriented values. The
author puts forward his concept that there are basically two kinds of
people on the planet: "Reverential Man" and "Promethean Man".
Reverential Man, he explains, is the person who reveres nature and
realizes the importance of preserving it. Promethean Man feels an
empty longing inside himself because he has lost his connection to,
and closeness with, nature. He seeks to relieve his inner hunger and
longing by consuming the world around him. Western civilization, he
proposes, is basically a civilization of Promethean Man, destroying
nature in its path as it spreads, thereby ensuring its own eventual
self-destruction, unless it can reverse its outlook and learn to
revere and preserve the natural aspects of the planet.
I looked up "Promethean" in the dictionary, but the definition seems
to contradict the usage I had been reading. I am trying to relate the
following definitions the above-mentioned "Promethean Man":
(1) Having a life-giving quality; inspiring.
(2) Boldly creative, original, or life-giving.
(3) Creative and imaginatively original
Even more confusing to me is that the name Prometheus is supposed to
come from "Prometheus", (forethoughtful).
Can anyone explain or clarify?
|
First, since your author has defined what he means by
"Promethean Man" sufficiently well for you to summarize it
above, I don't understand what the problem is. Second, he
clearly means for "Promethean" to refer to the myth of
Prometheus - if your dictionary doesn't tell you that it is a
mythical name, you need a better dictionary, but if you know
that and don't look it up, you can't blame your dictionary.
Third, your author's meaning seems in reasonable agreement with
sense 2) and 3) given by your dictionary - again, I do not see
the problem.
Prometheus, of course, stole fire from the gods and gave it to
mankind (and was condemned to eternal torture for his efforts,
although that is not particularly relevant here). Human beings
living without control of fire are likened by your author to
mankind living in harmony with nature. If people are living
naturally - in this view - it follows that human innovation and
creativity is unnatural or anti-natural. In nature, there is
darkness, with fire man makes light. In nature, there is cold,
with fire man make heat. And so forth. Thus Promethean Man,
as you have described your author's definition of him, turns
nature on its head, making light where there would be darkness
and heat where there would be cold.
Now it is easy to criticize this view, because after all, nature
includes human nature - or as Emerson(?) put it, nature who made
the carpenter built the house (or words to that effect).
Prometheus, after all, is a myth, and no one stole fire from the
gods, but mankind figured it out for itself. But that your
author might be refuted should not interfere with understanding
what he has written.
--
Lars Eighner usenet@larseighner.com http://www.larseighner.com/
"Classic. A book which people praise and don't read." --Mark Twain
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Promethean? |
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"Al Deveron" <AAnotes3cat@aol.com> wrote in message
news:43707c2f.3442833@news.individual.net...
| Quote: |
I'm baffled... I have been reading a book about Native American
spirituality vs. Western civilization's money-oriented values.
|
What book? What author, please?
I wonder about your selection of this as the theme of the book. Perhaps
it isn't the only theme, but I find the very comparison between NS
spirituality vs Western civilization's money-oriented values incongruous
and unfair. Why not compare spirituality between both cultures? And
then property/exchange/territoriality and other relationships between
man and nature?
| Quote: | The
author puts forward his concept that there are basically two kinds of
people on the planet: "Reverential Man" and "Promethean Man".
Reverential Man, he explains, is the person who reveres nature and
realizes the importance of preserving it. Promethean Man feels an
empty longing inside himself because he has lost his connection to,
and closeness with, nature. He seeks to relieve his inner hunger and
longing by consuming the world around him. Western civilization, he
proposes, is basically a civilization of Promethean Man, destroying
nature in its path as it spreads, thereby ensuring its own eventual
self-destruction, unless it can reverse its outlook and learn to
revere and preserve the natural aspects of the planet.
I looked up "Promethean" in the dictionary, but the definition seems
to contradict the usage I had been reading. I am trying to relate the
following definitions the above-mentioned "Promethean Man":
(1) Having a life-giving quality; inspiring.
(2) Boldly creative, original, or life-giving.
(3) Creative and imaginatively original
Even more confusing to me is that the name Prometheus is supposed to
come from "Prometheus", (forethoughtful).
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I agree with what the others have said. |
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brians@wsu.edu
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Promethean? |
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Prometheus is traditionally identified with civilization, technological
innovation, and radical transformations of nature. He brought literacy
and other civilizing tools to humanity, all of which are symbolized by
fire.
By the way, there has been some interesting modern research in the ways
that Native Americans may have radically transformed the North American
environment in various ways. The notion that they have always unformly
sought to conform to natural ways seems to be at least partly
myth-making. I remember an article in Scientific American not too long
ago, but I don't have a citation at hand. There has been work both on
species extinction and environmental transformation.
Of course Europeans greatly accelerated processes of change, but the
idea that there was some universal reverence for natural ways that
prevented change in pre-contact times is seriously doubted by many
modern scholars. |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:12 am
Post subject: Re: Promethean? |
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brians@wsu.edu wrote:
| Quote: | Prometheus is traditionally identified with civilization, technological
innovation, and radical transformations of nature. He brought literacy
and other civilizing tools to humanity, all of which are symbolized by
fire.
By the way, there has been some interesting modern research in the ways
that Native Americans may have radically transformed the North American
environment in various ways. The notion that they have always unformly
sought to conform to natural ways seems to be at least partly
myth-making. I remember an article in Scientific American not too long
ago, but I don't have a citation at hand. There has been work both on
species extinction and environmental transformation.
Of course Europeans greatly accelerated processes of change, but the
idea that there was some universal reverence for natural ways that
prevented change in pre-contact times is seriously doubted by many
modern scholars.
|
Thus well-informed people on that side of the argument say that when
Native Americans changed the environment, they (mostly, or often) did
it with reverence.
--
Jerry Friedman |
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Al Deveron
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:49 am
Post subject: Re: Promethean? |
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On 8 Nov 2005 08:05:21 -0800, "brians@wsu.edu" <brians@wsu.edu> wrote:
| Quote: | Prometheus is traditionally identified with civilization, technological
innovation, and radical transformations of nature. He brought literacy
and other civilizing tools to humanity, all of which are symbolized by
fire.
|
Yes. Since my OP, I have now realised that the auther was alluding to
this when he used the term "Promethean Man". I was enlightened by the
following passage written by Eve Baumohl Neuhaus:
<<Prometheus, whose name, from the Greek, is commonly translated as
he-who-looks-forward, best represents our times. Prometheus rebels
against the authority of Zeus by stealing and giving to humankind the
fire of the gods, which, in ancient times and today, provides us with
better living through technology. For this he is forever chained to a
mountain where his liver is daily eaten out by an eagle. As Slater
puts it, he represents the blind faith in human innovation [that] made
otherwise well experienced seamen lose their better judgment . What
painfully Promethean times we live in!>>
Thanks to the other respondees also.
Al D |
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Al Deveron
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:02 am
Post subject: Re: Promethean? |
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On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 14:47:05 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | What book? What author, please?
|
It's called Sacred Earth by Arthur Versluis. (1992, Inner Traditions
International).
| Quote: | I wonder about your selection of this as the theme of the book. Perhaps
it isn't the only theme, but I find the very comparison between NS
spirituality vs Western civilization's money-oriented values incongruous
and unfair.
|
Well, I may not have explained the theme of the book properly since
that is not what I was trying to do. In fact, I have only got as far
as the first chapter, so I can't even offer a fair assessment yet. It
is my impression that the book is an overview of Native American
spiritual traditions and beliefs and that's why I'm reading it.
Al D |
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brians@wsu.edu
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: Promethean? |
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On our campus we have a relief sculpture of Prometheus and his torch
which has always looked to me like he has dropped it rather than being
about to grasp it. Or he's about to get a hot-foot.
http://www.pbrians.com/palouse/wsu/prometheus.html |
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Martin Ambuhl
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: Promethean? |
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Al Deveron wrote:
| Quote: | Well, I may not have explained the theme of the book properly since
that is not what I was trying to do. In fact, I have only got as far
as the first chapter, so I can't even offer a fair assessment yet. It
is my impression that the book is an overview of Native American
spiritual traditions and beliefs and that's why I'm reading it.
|
Since your book seems to be comparing claimed spiritual values of Native
Americans with the practice of European adventurers, consider...
1) On the one hand,
Make sure that the author honestly discusses the hunting to extinction
of several species by Native Americans before there were any Europeans
to blame. It is a reasonable hypothesis that the only thing that in the
way of their denuding the continent was their lack of technology, which
lack is not the result of some positive "spiritual" value.
2) On the other hand,
Make sure that the author honestly discusses the stewardship doctrines
of the European churches. This doctrine was well-developed and found
clear legal expression without needing to be reconstructed by people
looking for the Noble Savage. |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:22 am
Post subject: Re: Promethean? |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | brians@wsu.edu wrote:
[...]
By the way, there has been some interesting modern research in the
ways that Native Americans may have radically transformed the
North
American environment in various ways.
[...]
Of course Europeans greatly accelerated processes of change, but
the
idea that there was some universal reverence for natural ways that
prevented change in pre-contact times is seriously doubted by many
modern scholars.
Thus well-informed people on that side of the argument say that
when
Native Americans changed the environment, they (mostly, or often)
did
it with reverence.
|
The first Australians certainly managed the landscape pretty
thoroughly, particularly by using fire. The settlers' idea of
aboriginal people in an untouched aboriginal landscape was quite
wrong. (There's a school of thought, or at any rate a school of
polemic, which maintains that the white settlement of Australia has
been a complete failure. An interesting case can be made for it.)
--
Mike. |
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Al Deveron
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Promethean? |
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On 8 Nov 2005 12:28:02 -0800, "brians@wsu.edu" <brians@wsu.edu> wrote:
That photo is perhaps a more comlete work of art than the frieze, in
that the photographer included the Coca-Cola machines and an
overweight American waddling allong the corridor.. There's a poignant
message in there somewhere... ;-)
Al D |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Promethean? |
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On Wed, 09 Nov 2005 09:57:44 GMT, AAnotes3cat@aol.com (Al Deveron)
wrote:
| Quote: | On 8 Nov 2005 12:28:02 -0800, "brians@wsu.edu" <brians@wsu.edu> wrote:
On our campus we have a relief sculpture of Prometheus and his torch
which has always looked to me like he has dropped it rather than being
about to grasp it. Or he's about to get a hot-foot.
http://www.pbrians.com/palouse/wsu/prometheus.html
That photo is perhaps a more comlete work of art than the frieze, in
that the photographer included the Coca-Cola machines and an
overweight American waddling allong the corridor.. There's a poignant
message in there somewhere... ;-)
Homeland Security needs you. If you can determine, from that |
photograph, the nationality of either person in the corridor you have
a special gift.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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