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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:48 am
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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FB wrote:
| Quote: | On 8 Nov 2005 00:23:29 -0800, jimi_usenet@hotmail.com wrote:
In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2 O'Clock or
whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour, we use the word
"hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do you say in english?
[...]
Also, do you say "5 minutes to", without the hour part? If not, what do
you say if it's five minutes left until the "full hour"? In swedish, "5
minutes to four" is "fem i fyra", and if we're not interested in the
hour then it's simply "fem i".
Well, the way you say X.25 and X.35 is not exactly simple and rational, is
it. (smiling face)
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I guess you're refering to "5 i halv" ("5 to half past") and "5 över
halv" ("5 past half past")?
I can hardly see how that is complicated or irational. That is as if I
would call expressions like "half five" complicated or irational.
Ofcourse they may seem abit odd for me, considering that "halv fem"
(fem = five) is 4:30, but both ways are equally rational if you ask me.
It just depends on your point o view if they "feel" logical or not.
Now, regarding "5 i/över halv". We can also say simply "25" (or "35",
if the time is x.35). Ofcourse we don't use that way of just saying the
minute number if we could get missunderstood. For instance, we never
say "en/ett" (one) when we mean "X:01", or "tre" (three) when we mean
X:03. But I say things like "23" for X:23, when we know it's not 11 pm
(23:00 for us).
/Jimi
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:59 am
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle [...]
Oh, and DCW below reminds me that among bus and train peopl
You are Michael Howard and I claim my Conservative Party
knighthood. |
[...]
Curses! Rumblld!
--
Mike. |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:00 am
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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the Omrud wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | I mean like a bus timetable. "this job will run four times each
hour
at :12, :25, :41 and :56". Hmmm, is that what Mike meant?
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That's the kind of thing, yes. "He's due at thirty-two."
--
Mike.
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:25 am
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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Lars Eighner wrote:
| Quote: | In our last episode,
1131440938.013255.202910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, the
lovely and talented jimi_usenet@hotmail.com broadcast on
alt.usage.english:
Harvey Van Sickle skrev:
I'd just say the number of the hour ("three", or "noon").
But what if you don't know the hour? If, for instance, the hour hand of
your analog watch is broken, but the minute hand is perfectly fine. If
the minute hand is pointing 12, what time whould you say it was?
I'm curious about this, since it is quite common in swedish.
In that case, perhaps you had better get some better watches.
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Well, that was just a way for me to try to "force" him to try to state
the time without any reference to the hour. For me it feels weird not
to be able to do this in a simple, straight forward kind of way,
without having it sound strange.
| Quote: | The questions and answers you have given suppose that both
parties know what the hour is, not that their watches are
broken.
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Well, the focus here was that the hour isn't important, and then it
doesn't matter if they know the hour or not.
| Quote: | The time of 0 minutes past the hour without regard to the hour
is often called "on the hour." "Weather reports on the hour"
means weather reports will be given at 1:00, 2:00, 3:00, etc.
"At the hour" means the same thing.
But this would be an absurd, if not rude, response to "What time
is it?" "It is at the hour," would probably be understood, but
considered odd.
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Well, I think those phrases might be considered "odd", "rude" or
"absurd" simply because since they aren't used much, and they also
sound a bit strange if you ask me. In swedish, if we simply say "hel"
it would only be considered rude (or lazy) if the hour was important
for the one asking. So I only use that when I'm fairly sure that the
hour isn't important (for instance, if someone knows that a bus/train
leaves 5 past, and askes me for the time).
Also, I quite often find myself in situations when I don't know the
hour, but still have a fairly good understanding of the minutes. For
instance, I tend toget up at "full hours" in the mornings, may it be
7.00, 8.00, 9.00 or whatever. And if nothing speciall happens I usually
finish breakfast in about 30 minutes. If someone would ask me about the
time, and I know that the exact time isn't that important, I would
simply say "halv, typ" ("half past, give or take"). Then I get ready
for the day, and that also takes about 30 minutes. If then someone
would ask me about the time (again, not needing the exact time), I
would simply say "hel, typ".
I'm not saying that I don't have any watches in my appartment. It's
just that if the hour isn't important, and neigher is the exact minute,
then I tend to just use "biological clock" and state an estimate time.
Ofcourse we also have the situation were I fairly recently have looked
at a watch, and registering the minutes but not really the hour (since
I often find it unnecessary). If then someone in a hury (have to catch
the train, for instance) askes me for the time I would reply with the
minutes I recall, and after that looking at my watch to see if I need
to correct my statement. This has happend to me quite a few times, and
some of the times the person was out of the door before I had time to
check my watch for the exact time.
/Jimi |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:47 am
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Jim Lawton wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 10:39:38 +0100, Ross Howard [...]
Annoying TV and radio types say "the top of the hour".
And endearingly, the Irish say "Top of the morning!".
Oh, and DCW below reminds me that among bus and train peopl the hour
isn't always mentioned, but the minutes are given in full:
"forty-five".
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With "bus and train people" you mean people working at these companies?
But what do you say if you read a time table that looks like this:
07:00, 25, 42
08:00, 25, 42
09:00, 25, 42
10:00, 25, 42
11:00, 25, 42
Would you say something like "Every hour, on the our, and 25 and 42
past. Between 7 and 11:42"?
In swedish, I would say "Hel, 25 och 42. Från 7 till 11:42".
And if you're talking to someone who knows the time table, how would
you say that you're planing to take the next train, and the time is
X:38? I would simply say "Jag tar 42-tåget" ("I'm taking the
42-train").
I hope you guys here don't think I'm a irritating nitpicking whatever
or something here, just asking stupid questions. I am simply curious
how you say these things in every day life situations, and comparing
that with what we say in swedish.
/Jimi |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:56 am
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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Jim Lawton wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 13:49:57 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
nospamfilius@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
Jim Lawton skrev:
I see what you say elsewhere about watches without hour hands,
but in life as in programming, we shouldn't spend time on
unlikely exceptions.
I think Jimi only used that picture to force us not to specify
the hour.
Sorry - we programmers can be too literal sometimes (he smiled, thus avoiding
using the  which is frowned on in these parts).
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Well, I'm a programmer myself, and should have known better then to
write such a strained example. All I wanted was to see if there was an
natural, and "elegant" way of telling the time without any reference to
the hour.
(no, I'm not afraid of using this particular combination of
characters)
/Jimi |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:03 am
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
| Quote: | nancy13g wrote:
Jeffrey Turner wrote:
Am I the only one who might say "a quarter _of_"?
Not the only one. I say it all the time.
Is this another New England thing, does anybody know? Jeff, where are
you located?
I would never say it but wouldn't be too surprised to hear it. I would
regard it as old fashioned though. It may have been common here once
or it may be still common in some areas but not the ones that I
frequent.
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I grew up on the west coast of the USA. We said "quarter of" and even
"five of" all the time. Many years later, living in Colorado, some
locals thought I meant ""quarter past" and "five past" when I said
that, but they weren't really sure. They were happier with "to" or
"till".
Regarding frequent broadcasts on the radio of weather or traffic: Local
stations here say things like "Traffic at the fours", meaning the
traffic report can be heard at 4 past the hour, 14 past, 24 past, etc.
--larry |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:45 am
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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jimi_usenet@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Lyle wrote:
[...]
With "bus and train people" you mean people working at these
companies? But what do you say if you read a time table that looks
like this:
07:00, 25, 42
08:00, 25, 42
09:00, 25, 42
10:00, 25, 42
11:00, 25, 42
Would you say something like "Every hour, on the our, and 25 and 42
past. Between 7 and 11:42"?
In swedish, I would say "Hel, 25 och 42. Från 7 till 11:42".
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Sorry: I thought you'd read the bit earlier in the thread where most
of that was dealt with, and were asking only about xx:00. We'd say
"On the hour and at twenty-fvie past and eighteen minutes to, from
seven a.m./in the morning till eleven-forty-two p.m./at night."
| Quote: |
And if you're talking to someone who knows the time table, how
would
you say that you're planing to take the next train, and the time is
X:38? I would simply say "Jag tar 42-tåget" ("I'm taking the
42-train").
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For times before half-past, I'd say "I'm catching the twenty-five
past [train]." Then, "...the half-past." For ones after half-past,
"I'm catching the eighteen minutes to [train]."
| Quote: |
I hope you guys here don't think I'm a irritating nitpicking
whatever
or something here, just asking stupid questions. I am simply
curious
how you say these things in every day life situations, and
comparing
that with what we say in swedish.
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No, these are very reasonable questions which aren't always answered
in books.
--
Mike. |
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Jeffrey Turner
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:23 am
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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nancy13g wrote:
| Quote: | Jeffrey Turner wrote:
Am I the only one who might say "a quarter _of_"?
Not the only one. I say it all the time.
Is this another New England thing, does anybody know? Jeff, where are
you located?
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I grew up on Long Island, but my dad was from Connecticut.
--Jeff
--
The spirit of democracy cannot be imposed
from without. It has to come from within.
--Mohandas K. Gandhi |
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Sara Lorimer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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nancy13g <nancy13g@verizon.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Jeffrey Turner wrote:
Am I the only one who might say "a quarter _of_"?
Not the only one. I say it all the time.
Me too. |
| Quote: | Is this another New England thing, does anybody know? Jeff, where are
you located?
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I have some New England influences.
--
SML |
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 19:47:01 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Jim Lawton <usenet1@jimlawton.TAKEOUTinfo> spake thusly:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 18:00:13 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gmail.com> wrote:
Mike Lyle <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> spake thusly:
Jim Lawton wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 10:39:38 +0100, Ross Howard [...]
Annoying TV and radio types say "the top of the hour".
And endearingly, the Irish say "Top of the morning!".
Oh, and DCW below reminds me that among bus and train peopl
You are Michael Howard and I claim my Conservative Party knighthood.
the hour
isn't always mentioned, but the minutes are given in full:
"forty-five".
IT folk do that as well.
I don't understand. I'm sure I'll do it, but how do you mean? Have you an
example?
I mean like a bus timetable. "this job will run four times each hour
at :12, :25, :41 and :56". Hmmm, is that what Mike meant?
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I think that if that were spoken, in relation to buses, it would be followed by
"past the (or each) hour".
I don't really buy it in relation to scheduling IT jobs either, but that might
merely be because my experience tells me that the majority of such jobs will run
"every nn minutes".
--
Jim
the Yorkshire polymoth |
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dcw
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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In article <83v1n15plg80s50kg804eprrk64rih83qp@4ax.com>,
Jim Lawton <usenet1@jimlawton.TAKEOUTinfo> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 08 Nov 05 13:14:24 GMT, D.C.Wood@ukc.ac.uk (dcw) wrote:
Once, long ago, I heard someone saying when the buses went:
"Twenty past, twenty to, and at".
I like it - that would normally be "on the hour" around here.
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And almost everywhere, I expect. I only remembered "at" because
of its oddity.
David |
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