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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:23 pm
Post subject: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2 O'Clock or
whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour, we use the word
"hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do you say in english?
Example:
A: What time is it?
B: Half past.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: A quarter to.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: ???
Also, do you say "5 minutes to", without the hour part? If not, what do
you say if it's five minutes left until the "full hour"? In swedish, "5
minutes to four" is "fem i fyra", and if we're not interested in the
hour then it's simply "fem i".
I'm interested in both AmE and BrE usage.
Regards
/Jimi |
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Harvey Van Sickle
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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On 08 Nov 2005, wrote
| Quote: | In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2
O'Clock or whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour,
we use the word "hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do
you say in english?
Example:
A: What time is it?
B: Half past.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: A quarter to.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: ???
|
I'd just say the number of the hour ("three", or "noon").
| Quote: | Also, do you say "5 minutes to", without the hour part? If
not, what do you say if it's five minutes left until the "full
hour"?
|
"Five to"; the "minutes" is understood.
| Quote: | I'm interested in both AmE and BrE usage.
|
--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van |
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Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:08 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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Harvey Van Sickle skrev:
| Quote: | On 08 Nov 2005, wrote
In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2
O'Clock or whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour,
we use the word "hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do
you say in english?
Example:
A: What time is it?
B: Half past.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: A quarter to.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: ???
I'd just say the number of the hour ("three", or "noon").
|
But what if you don't know the hour? If, for instance, the hour hand of
your analog watch is broken, but the minute hand is perfectly fine. If
the minute hand is pointing 12, what time whould you say it was?
I'm curious about this, since it is quite common in swedish.
/Jimi |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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<jimi_usenet@hotmail.com> spake thusly:
| Quote: | Harvey Van Sickle skrev:
On 08 Nov 2005, wrote
In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2
O'Clock or whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour,
we use the word "hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do
you say in english?
Example:
A: What time is it?
B: Half past.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: A quarter to.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: ???
I'd just say the number of the hour ("three", or "noon").
But what if you don't know the hour? If, for instance, the hour hand of
your analog watch is broken, but the minute hand is perfectly fine. If
the minute hand is pointing 12, what time whould you say it was?
|
"On the hour", I think. "Five to something" if it's nn:55.
| Quote: | I'm curious about this, since it is quite common in swedish.
|
Are Swedish watches of such low quality that the hour hands regularly
fall off?
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Lars Eighner
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:30 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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In our last episode,
<1131440938.013255.202910@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, the
lovely and talented jimi_usenet@hotmail.com broadcast on
alt.usage.english:
| Quote: | Harvey Van Sickle skrev:
On 08 Nov 2005, wrote
In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2
O'Clock or whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour,
we use the word "hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do
you say in english?
Example:
A: What time is it?
B: Half past.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: A quarter to.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: ???
I'd just say the number of the hour ("three", or "noon").
But what if you don't know the hour? If, for instance, the hour hand of
your analog watch is broken, but the minute hand is perfectly fine. If
the minute hand is pointing 12, what time whould you say it was?
I'm curious about this, since it is quite common in swedish.
|
In that case, perhaps you had better get some better watches.
The questions and answers you have given suppose that both
parties know what the hour is, not that their watches are
broken.
The time of 0 minutes past the hour without regard to the hour
is often called "on the hour." "Weather reports on the hour"
means weather reports will be given at 1:00, 2:00, 3:00, etc.
"At the hour" means the same thing.
But this would be an absurd, if not rude, response to "What time
is it?" "It is at the hour," would probably be understood, but
considered odd. If you are telling time by the sun, it is
unlikely you will be able to be sufficiently precise to say
"Five 'til," so if you were able to say "Five to," five minutes
ago, you should now be able to say "Three," or "Four," or
whatever hour it is now.
--
Lars Eighner usenet@larseighner.com http://www.larseighner.com/
It is better to deserve honours and not have them than to have them
and not to deserve them. --Mark Twain |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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On 8 Nov 2005 01:08:58 -0800, jimi_usenet@hotmail.com wrought:
| Quote: | Harvey Van Sickle skrev:
On 08 Nov 2005, wrote
In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2
O'Clock or whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour,
we use the word "hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do
you say in english?
Example:
A: What time is it?
B: Half past.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: A quarter to.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: ???
I'd just say the number of the hour ("three", or "noon").
But what if you don't know the hour? If, for instance, the hour hand of
your analog watch is broken, but the minute hand is perfectly fine. If
the minute hand is pointing 12, what time whould you say it was?
I'm curious about this, since it is quite common in swedish.
|
Annoying TV and radio types say "the top of the hour".
--
Ross Howard |
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 10:39:38 +0100, Ross Howard <gguiri@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On 8 Nov 2005 01:08:58 -0800, jimi_usenet@hotmail.com wrought:
Harvey Van Sickle skrev:
On 08 Nov 2005, wrote
In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2
O'Clock or whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour,
we use the word "hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do
you say in english?
Example:
A: What time is it?
B: Half past.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: A quarter to.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: ???
I'd just say the number of the hour ("three", or "noon").
But what if you don't know the hour? If, for instance, the hour hand of
your analog watch is broken, but the minute hand is perfectly fine. If
the minute hand is pointing 12, what time whould you say it was?
I'm curious about this, since it is quite common in swedish.
Annoying TV and radio types say "the top of the hour".
|
And endearingly, the Irish say "Top of the morning!".
--
Jim
the polymoth |
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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On 8 Nov 2005 00:23:29 -0800, jimi_usenet@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2 O'Clock or
whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour, we use the word
"hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do you say in english?
Example:
A: What time is it?
B: Half past.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: A quarter to.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: ???
|
If you are both aware of what hour you are approaching you _could_ say "it's on
the hour", but you'ld be much more likely to say the number - "six" , "seven" -
or "noon", or "midnight".
| Quote: |
I see what you say elsewhere about watches without hour hands, but in life as in |
programming, we shouldn't spend time on unlikely exceptions. If you rely on a
man with a broken watch to know what time it is you're daft. Your Swedish usage
implies that the speakers know what time hour it is.
| Quote: | Also, do you say "5 minutes to", without the hour part? If not, what do
you say if it's five minutes left until the "full hour"? In swedish, "5
minutes to four" is "fem i fyra", and if we're not interested in the
hour then it's simply "fem i".
|
It's the same "five to", "five past".
BrE (Yorkshire)
--
Jim
the polymoth |
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JF
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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X-No-Archive: yes
In message <MPG.1dda7d9e80b332b498a221@news.ntlworld.com>, the Omrud
<usenet.omrud@gmail.com> writes
| Quote: | I'm curious about this, since it is quite common in swedish.
Are Swedish watches of such low quality that the hour hands regularly
fall off?
|
Our grandfather clock (which boring, nit-picking know-alls insist on
calling a long case clock) was 50 years old when that Napoleon chappie
marched on Moscow. It has one hand -- an hour hand. In those days that
was reckoned quite adequate for measuring the passage of time. The
minute hand (the hand which sweeps through 360 degrees every hour) is a
new-fangled innovation whose usefulness I question.
--
James Follett. |
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Seán O'Leathlóbhair
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:37 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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jimi_usenet@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Harvey Van Sickle skrev:
On 08 Nov 2005, wrote
In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2
O'Clock or whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour,
we use the word "hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do
you say in english?
Example:
A: What time is it?
B: Half past.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: A quarter to.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: ???
I'd just say the number of the hour ("three", or "noon").
But what if you don't know the hour? If, for instance, the hour hand of
your analog watch is broken, but the minute hand is perfectly fine. If
the minute hand is pointing 12, what time whould you say it was?
I'm curious about this, since it is quite common in swedish.
/Jimi
|
For a while, we had a clock in the house with only a minute hand. The
motor had broken but we liked the clock and I managed to buy a new
motor. Unfortunately, I was only able to attach the old minute to the
new motor. I could not attach the old hour hand to the new motor. It
was some weeks later that I managed to buy some suitable hands to
return the clock to normal. In the meantime, it was actually useful.
This clock is mostly used in the morning when getting ready for work
and school. The range of likely times is usually less than an hour so
knowing the minutes only was enough. But this does not have much
bearing on the answers to your questions.
I would often say: "Five minutes to" or just "Five to" at xx:55 if I
did not know the hour or believed that the listener knew it already.
Similarly: "five past".
At xx:00, I would normally say just the hour number: "six o'clock",
"it's six" or maybe just "six" even if I believed that the listener did
know the hour. It is not possible to get a much shorter answer than
"six" so the unnecessary information has not cost anything. Not
knowing the hour rather than not needing to say it, is a bit rarer.
The most likely context is something that happens multiple times at
xx:00 (e.g. trains). In this case I would use "on the hour". In the
rare case of a single event of which I knew the minute but not the hour
I would have to use the same phrase.
Have you noticed the recent thread on "half ten" and such times? Are
you aware that in the UK, "Half ten" means 10:30 or 22:30 but never
09:30 or 21:30. It is an abbreviation of "half past ten". "Half to
ten" is never used.
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair |
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FB
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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On 8 Nov 2005 00:23:29 -0800, jimi_usenet@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2 O'Clock or
whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour, we use the word
"hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do you say in english?
[...]
Also, do you say "5 minutes to", without the hour part? If not, what do
you say if it's five minutes left until the "full hour"? In swedish, "5
minutes to four" is "fem i fyra", and if we're not interested in the
hour then it's simply "fem i".
|
Well, the way you say X.25 and X.35 is not exactly simple and rational, is
it. (smiling face)
Bye, FB
--
"These bitches need to be put in their places."
(Sex and the City) |
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Blue Hornet
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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jimi_usenet@hotmail.com wrote:
| Quote: | Harvey Van Sickle skrev:
On 08 Nov 2005, wrote
In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2
O'Clock or whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour,
we use the word "hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do
you say in english?
Example:
A: What time is it?
B: Half past.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: A quarter to.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: ???
I'd just say the number of the hour ("three", or "noon").
But what if you don't know the hour? If, for instance, the hour hand of
your analog watch is broken, but the minute hand is perfectly fine. If
the minute hand is pointing 12, what time whould you say it was?
I'm curious about this, since it is quite common in swedish.
/Jimi
|
Then perhaps you should get better watches, shouldn't you? Maybe even
go digital. |
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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Jim Lawton skrev:
| Quote: | I see what you say elsewhere about watches without hour hands,
but in life as in programming, we shouldn't spend time on
unlikely exceptions.
|
I think Jimi only used that picture to force us not to specify
the hour.
--
Bertel
Denmark |
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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Blue Hornet skrev:
| Quote: | Then perhaps you should get better watches, shouldn't you? Maybe even
go digital.
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You have never seen a digital watch where the hour numbers are
screwed up?
--
Bertel
Denmark |
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dcw
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Quarter past, half past.... O'Clock? |
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In article <1131438209.851589.189110@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<jimi_usenet@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | In swedish, if the time is X O'Clock (it can be 1 O'Clock, 2 O'Clock or
whatever) and we don't bother about the exact hour, we use the word
"hel" (whole, entire, full, complete). What do you say in english?
Example:
A: What time is it?
B: Half past.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: A quarter to.
[15 minutes later]
A: What time is it now?
B: ???
|
Once, long ago, I heard someone saying when the buses went:
"Twenty past, twenty to, and at".
David |
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