| Author |
Message |
Jeffrey Turner
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:33 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
| Quote: | larrysulky@gmail.com wrote:
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
---SNIP-----
For 3/4, it is only: "three quarters". Again, in some maths contexts,
I may say: "three over/upon four". I would never say: "three fourths".
I know some people who are fluent but non-native who say "three
fourths" and it sounds very odd to my ears. (I assume that your "three
thirds" was a mistake).
In North America, "one-fourth" and "three-fourths" are commonly used,
though probably not quite as much as "one-quarter" and
"three-quarters". It would not strike me at all strange to hear someone
order "three-fourths of a kilo of ham" at the deli. Well, as compared
to "three-quarters". Most likely this someone would order 750 grams and
be done with it.
Yes, my answer was only intended to cover British usage where "three
fourths" is rare.
In America, I would be surprised to hear: "750 grams of ham" but it is
the "grams" that would surprise me. In Canada, I would not be
surprised. It would also be unsurprising here where metric units are
finally making inroads.
I was aware that Americans would sometimes use "three fourths" rather
than "three quarters" but was not aware of the relative frequency of
the terms. "A fourth of gin" sounds very American to me. I guess that
"a quarter of gin" risks confusion with "a quart of gin" and you may
get more drunk than you intended. Over here, "quart" has not been
popular for a long time, not even before metric units were common.
Spirits were one of the first liquids to switch to metric even though
beer will probably be the last. Today, petrol (gasoline), spirits,
wine, fruit juice are in litres but beer and milk are still in pints.
|
I've seen liquor sold in fifths but never fourths. But I
haven't been in a packie in a while. Pop is sold in two-liter
bottles, most everything else in British units.
--Jeff
--
The spirit of democracy cannot be imposed
from without. It has to come from within.
--Mohandas K. Gandhi
|
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|
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Blue Hornet
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:38 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
reiro wrote:
| Quote: | Could you please tell me how to read the fractions below.
1/2 - it's only possible to say half and not one second yes?
what about 3/4 - I think I've heard the two ways of reading it: three
thirds or three quarters. Which is more correct or more common especially
in GB?
72/2 - can I read it as seventy-two second? or just as thirty-six?
|
Others have responded to the questions about halves and quarters above.
I'm questioning where and how you have seen "72/2" used. This seems
more like a numbering system, such as a part or model number: "Model
72/2 Vacuum cleaner" or (common) periodicals numbering: "Comparative
Parasitology 72/2", which means "Volume 72, Number 2" (both of these
actual Google results of searching for the string '72/2').
I'm thinking of other usages I've seen (not common, but they're
around), such as "110/60" which in terms of electricity in the States
would be "110 Volts, 60 cycles", and never read as a fraction, or
simplified as in arithmetic. Where you saw a usage such as this could
help to answer this part of the question. |
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Harvey Van Sickle
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:41 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
On 08 Nov 2005, Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote
re: consumer measurements in Britain
| Quote: | Today, petrol (gasoline), spirits, wine, fruit juice are in
litres but beer and milk are still in pints.
|
*Some* milk is still in pints: I've quite certain I've seen both
pints and 500ml containers of milk.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van
|
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Blue Hornet
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:02 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
| Quote: | larrysulky@gmail.com wrote:
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
---SNIP-----
For 3/4, it is only: "three quarters". Again, in some maths contexts,
I may say: "three over/upon four". I would never say: "three fourths".
I know some people who are fluent but non-native who say "three
fourths" and it sounds very odd to my ears. (I assume that your "three
thirds" was a mistake).
In North America, "one-fourth" and "three-fourths" are commonly used,
though probably not quite as much as "one-quarter" and
"three-quarters". It would not strike me at all strange to hear someone
order "three-fourths of a kilo of ham" at the deli. Well, as compared
to "three-quarters". Most likely this someone would order 750 grams and
be done with it.
Yes, my answer was only intended to cover British usage where "three
fourths" is rare.
In America, I would be surprised to hear: "750 grams of ham" but it is
the "grams" that would surprise me. In Canada, I would not be
surprised. It would also be unsurprising here where metric units are
finally making inroads.
I was aware that Americans would sometimes use "three fourths" rather
than "three quarters" but was not aware of the relative frequency of
the terms. "A fourth of gin" sounds very American to me. I guess that
"a quarter of gin" risks confusion with "a quart of gin" and you may
get more drunk than you intended. Over here, "quart" has not been
popular for a long time, not even before metric units were common.
Spirits were one of the first liquids to switch to metric even though
beer will probably be the last. Today, petrol (gasoline), spirits,
wine, fruit juice are in litres but beer and milk are still in pints.
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair
|
Say what? "A fourth of gin" would make no sense at all in the US
unless we're talking a four-handed card game, and then it would be "a
fourth AT gin". If anyone plays gin that way. In any case, if talking
about liquid measure in the States "a fifth" is commonly understood as
a fifth of a gallon, so a fourth (if anyone said or called for that,
which they would NOT) would be a quart. This is assurredly more common
(infinitely more) than "a fourth of gin". No one would misunderstand
what was meant by a quart of gin--and not many would drink it all at a
sitting, either. "A quarter of gin" wouldn't make a lot of sense,
either, unless you were sitting out part of a basketball game to play
cards. |
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Blue Hornet
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:02 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
| Quote: | larrysulky@gmail.com wrote:
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
---SNIP-----
For 3/4, it is only: "three quarters". Again, in some maths contexts,
I may say: "three over/upon four". I would never say: "three fourths".
I know some people who are fluent but non-native who say "three
fourths" and it sounds very odd to my ears. (I assume that your "three
thirds" was a mistake).
In North America, "one-fourth" and "three-fourths" are commonly used,
though probably not quite as much as "one-quarter" and
"three-quarters". It would not strike me at all strange to hear someone
order "three-fourths of a kilo of ham" at the deli. Well, as compared
to "three-quarters". Most likely this someone would order 750 grams and
be done with it.
Yes, my answer was only intended to cover British usage where "three
fourths" is rare.
In America, I would be surprised to hear: "750 grams of ham" but it is
the "grams" that would surprise me. In Canada, I would not be
surprised. It would also be unsurprising here where metric units are
finally making inroads.
I was aware that Americans would sometimes use "three fourths" rather
than "three quarters" but was not aware of the relative frequency of
the terms. "A fourth of gin" sounds very American to me. I guess that
"a quarter of gin" risks confusion with "a quart of gin" and you may
get more drunk than you intended. Over here, "quart" has not been
popular for a long time, not even before metric units were common.
Spirits were one of the first liquids to switch to metric even though
beer will probably be the last. Today, petrol (gasoline), spirits,
wine, fruit juice are in litres but beer and milk are still in pints.
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair
|
Say what? "A fourth of gin" would make no sense at all in the US
unless we're talking a four-handed card game, and then it would be "a
fourth AT gin". If anyone plays gin that way. In any case, if talking
about liquid measure in the States "a fifth" is commonly understood as
a fifth of a gallon, so a fourth (if anyone said or called for that,
which they would NOT) would be a quart. This is assurredly more common
(infinitely more) than "a fourth of gin". No one would misunderstand
what was meant by a quart of gin--and not many would drink it all at a
sitting, either. "A quarter of gin" wouldn't make a lot of sense,
either, unless you were sitting out part of a basketball game to play
cards. |
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|
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Blue Hornet
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:05 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
Blue Hornet wrote:
| Quote: | reiro wrote:
Could you please tell me how to read the fractions below.
1/2 - it's only possible to say half and not one second yes?
what about 3/4 - I think I've heard the two ways of reading it: three
thirds or three quarters. Which is more correct or more common especially
in GB?
72/2 - can I read it as seventy-two second? or just as thirty-six?
Others have responded to the questions about halves and quarters above.
I'm questioning where and how you have seen "72/2" used. This seems
more like a numbering system, such as a part or model number: "Model
72/2 Vacuum cleaner" or (common) periodicals numbering: "Comparative
Parasitology 72/2", which means "Volume 72, Number 2" (both of these
actual Google results of searching for the string '72/2').
I'm thinking of other usages I've seen (not common, but they're
around), such as "110/60" which in terms of electricity in the States
would be "110 Volts, 60 cycles", and never read as a fraction, or
simplified as in arithmetic. Where you saw a usage such as this could
help to answer this part of the question.
|
As soon as I posted this I thought of two more very common (electrical)
usages:
220/3 = 220 Volt, 3-phase power, and
18/2 (and other combinations) = 18 gauge / 2-strand (insulated wire)
72/2 won't likely refer to a wire gauge (bigger numbers are smaller
gauges--explain THAT to me!), and 18 gauge wire is already pretty small
stuff. |
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Mike Barnes
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:19 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
In alt.usage.english, Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
| Quote: | On 08 Nov 2005, Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote
re: consumer measurements in Britain
Today, petrol (gasoline), spirits, wine, fruit juice are in
litres but beer and milk are still in pints.
*Some* milk is still in pints: I've quite certain I've seen both
pints and 500ml containers of milk.
|
Agreed. I've found 500 ml milk containers more commonly in Scotland, for
some reason.
AFAIK British pubs are required to sell draught beer in imperial (20 oz)
pints and halves. However a quick glance in the larder reveals a bottle
of Black Isle Organic Yellowhammer Bitter, contents 500 ml. (Predicted
contents in about 5 minutes: 0 ml (= 0 pints)).
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England |
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Seán O'Leathlóbhair
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:43 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
Blue Hornet wrote:
| Quote: | Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
larrysulky@gmail.com wrote:
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
---SNIP-----
For 3/4, it is only: "three quarters". Again, in some maths contexts,
I may say: "three over/upon four". I would never say: "three fourths".
I know some people who are fluent but non-native who say "three
fourths" and it sounds very odd to my ears. (I assume that your "three
thirds" was a mistake).
In North America, "one-fourth" and "three-fourths" are commonly used,
though probably not quite as much as "one-quarter" and
"three-quarters". It would not strike me at all strange to hear someone
order "three-fourths of a kilo of ham" at the deli. Well, as compared
to "three-quarters". Most likely this someone would order 750 grams and
be done with it.
Yes, my answer was only intended to cover British usage where "three
fourths" is rare.
In America, I would be surprised to hear: "750 grams of ham" but it is
the "grams" that would surprise me. In Canada, I would not be
surprised. It would also be unsurprising here where metric units are
finally making inroads.
I was aware that Americans would sometimes use "three fourths" rather
than "three quarters" but was not aware of the relative frequency of
the terms. "A fourth of gin" sounds very American to me. I guess that
"a quarter of gin" risks confusion with "a quart of gin" and you may
get more drunk than you intended. Over here, "quart" has not been
popular for a long time, not even before metric units were common.
Spirits were one of the first liquids to switch to metric even though
beer will probably be the last. Today, petrol (gasoline), spirits,
wine, fruit juice are in litres but beer and milk are still in pints.
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair
Say what? "A fourth of gin" would make no sense at all in the US
unless we're talking a four-handed card game, and then it would be "a
fourth AT gin". If anyone plays gin that way. In any case, if talking
about liquid measure in the States "a fifth" is commonly understood as
a fifth of a gallon, so a fourth (if anyone said or called for that,
which they would NOT) would be a quart. This is assurredly more common
(infinitely more) than "a fourth of gin". No one would misunderstand
what was meant by a quart of gin--and not many would drink it all at a
sitting, either. "A quarter of gin" wouldn't make a lot of sense,
either, unless you were sitting out part of a basketball game to play
cards.
|
Sorry, I slipped there. Are small bottles of spirits "fifths" rather
than "fourths"? Is that "fifth of a gallon" or "fifth of a pint"? To
me, a "fourth/quarter of a gallon" seems likely but a "fifth of a
gallon" seems odd. A UK gallon is 8 pints. Why do think a quart has
its name? To us it is a quarter of a gallon. How many pints in your
gallon? Ditto pint can have a quarter here but not a fifth since for
us it is 16 fluid ounces. This may explain my mistake.
Gallons are getting forgotten here. The only thing that was commonly
sold in gallons was petrol (gasoline) but that has been sold in litres
for a long time now. We still talk of "miles per gallon" but the
arithmetic required to calculate it is now harder. Watch out since our
gallon has a different size: 4.54 litres, I think that yours is 3.8. I
hope that we agree on the size of a litre. None of gallon, pint, nor
fluid ounce is the same size on the two sides of the Atlantic. But
this has been often discussed before so the regulars may not appreciate
the subject being reopened.
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair |
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Seán O'Leathlóbhair
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:47 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
Jeffrey Turner wrote:
| Quote: | Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
larrysulky@gmail.com wrote:
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
---SNIP-----
|
<snip>
| Quote: | I was aware that Americans would sometimes use "three fourths" rather
than "three quarters" but was not aware of the relative frequency of
the terms. "A fourth of gin" sounds very American to me. I guess that
"a quarter of gin" risks confusion with "a quart of gin" and you may
get more drunk than you intended. Over here, "quart" has not been
popular for a long time, not even before metric units were common.
Spirits were one of the first liquids to switch to metric even though
beer will probably be the last. Today, petrol (gasoline), spirits,
wine, fruit juice are in litres but beer and milk are still in pints.
I've seen liquor sold in fifths but never fourths. But I
haven't been in a packie in a while. Pop is sold in two-liter
bottles, most everything else in British units.
|
A mistake, see my reply to Blue Hornet. Note that what you call
"British Units" are in some cases not the same as the things of the
same name in Britain. For a start, we call them "Imperial Units".
| Quote: | --Jeff
--
The spirit of democracy cannot be imposed
from without. It has to come from within.
--Mohandas K. Gandhi
|
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair |
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| Back to top |
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Seán O'Leathlóbhair
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:51 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
| Quote: | Blue Hornet wrote:
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
larrysulky@gmail.com wrote:
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
---SNIP-----
For 3/4, it is only: "three quarters". Again, in some maths contexts,
I may say: "three over/upon four". I would never say: "three fourths".
I know some people who are fluent but non-native who say "three
fourths" and it sounds very odd to my ears. (I assume that your "three
thirds" was a mistake).
In North America, "one-fourth" and "three-fourths" are commonly used,
though probably not quite as much as "one-quarter" and
"three-quarters". It would not strike me at all strange to hear someone
order "three-fourths of a kilo of ham" at the deli. Well, as compared
to "three-quarters". Most likely this someone would order 750 grams and
be done with it.
Yes, my answer was only intended to cover British usage where "three
fourths" is rare.
In America, I would be surprised to hear: "750 grams of ham" but it is
the "grams" that would surprise me. In Canada, I would not be
surprised. It would also be unsurprising here where metric units are
finally making inroads.
I was aware that Americans would sometimes use "three fourths" rather
than "three quarters" but was not aware of the relative frequency of
the terms. "A fourth of gin" sounds very American to me. I guess that
"a quarter of gin" risks confusion with "a quart of gin" and you may
get more drunk than you intended. Over here, "quart" has not been
popular for a long time, not even before metric units were common.
Spirits were one of the first liquids to switch to metric even though
beer will probably be the last. Today, petrol (gasoline), spirits,
wine, fruit juice are in litres but beer and milk are still in pints.
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair
Say what? "A fourth of gin" would make no sense at all in the US
unless we're talking a four-handed card game, and then it would be "a
fourth AT gin". If anyone plays gin that way. In any case, if talking
about liquid measure in the States "a fifth" is commonly understood as
a fifth of a gallon, so a fourth (if anyone said or called for that,
which they would NOT) would be a quart. This is assurredly more common
(infinitely more) than "a fourth of gin". No one would misunderstand
what was meant by a quart of gin--and not many would drink it all at a
sitting, either. "A quarter of gin" wouldn't make a lot of sense,
either, unless you were sitting out part of a basketball game to play
cards.
Sorry, I slipped there. Are small bottles of spirits "fifths" rather
than "fourths"? Is that "fifth of a gallon" or "fifth of a pint"? To
me, a "fourth/quarter of a gallon" seems likely but a "fifth of a
gallon" seems odd. A UK gallon is 8 pints. Why do think a quart has
its name? To us it is a quarter of a gallon. How many pints in your
gallon? Ditto pint can have a quarter here but not a fifth since for
us it is 16 fluid ounces. This may explain my mistake.
|
Just a sec, I am no longer sure whether our pint is 16 fluid ounces and
yours is 20 or vice versa. The only thing that I am sure of is that
they are not the same. The metric system is finally taking over now
and I am forgetting some of this stuff.
| Quote: | Gallons are getting forgotten here. The only thing that was commonly
sold in gallons was petrol (gasoline) but that has been sold in litres
for a long time now. We still talk of "miles per gallon" but the
arithmetic required to calculate it is now harder. Watch out since our
gallon has a different size: 4.54 litres, I think that yours is 3.8. I
hope that we agree on the size of a litre. None of gallon, pint, nor
fluid ounce is the same size on the two sides of the Atlantic. But
this has been often discussed before so the regulars may not appreciate
the subject being reopened.
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair
|
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair, correcting himself to save others the trouble. |
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nancy13g
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:52 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
Jeffrey Turner wrote:
| Quote: | I've seen liquor sold in fifths but never fourths. But I
haven't been in a packie in a while. Pop is sold in two-liter
bottles, most everything else in British units.
|
Jeff, I asked you in another thread whether you're from New England or
not (based on your use of "quarter of" to tell time). I thought I'd
found the answer to that question here in this thread, since your use
of the word "packie" to mean a liquor store is an almost definite
marker of New England-ism.
Then you went and mixed me up again by referring to the carbonated
stuff people drink as "pop". Are you *sure* you didn't mean to say
"tonic"? Or are you maybe just a transplant to New England from
somewhere else?
I'm wicked confused ... |
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Seán O'Leathlóbhair
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:38 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
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Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
| Quote: | On 08 Nov 2005, Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote
re: consumer measurements in Britain
Today, petrol (gasoline), spirits, wine, fruit juice are in
litres but beer and milk are still in pints.
*Some* milk is still in pints: I've quite certain I've seen both
pints and 500ml containers of milk.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van
|
OK, I'll update that to "beer and milk are still commonly measured in
pints". Actually, it is draft beer that still in pints. Bottled and
canned beer is usually metric with 330ml being popular for some reason.
250ml and 500ml are also used. I don't recall seeing milk in metric
sizes but I won't deny that it exists. Could it have been some
non-standard type of milk such as UHT, chocolate, banana or soya?
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair |
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R H Draney
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:40 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
Blue Hornet filted:
| Quote: |
reiro wrote:
Could you please tell me how to read the fractions below.
1/2 - it's only possible to say half and not one second yes?
what about 3/4 - I think I've heard the two ways of reading it: three
thirds or three quarters. Which is more correct or more common especially
in GB?
72/2 - can I read it as seventy-two second? or just as thirty-six?
As soon as I posted this I thought of two more very common (electrical)
usages:
220/3 = 220 Volt, 3-phase power, and
18/2 (and other combinations) = 18 gauge / 2-strand (insulated wire)
72/2 won't likely refer to a wire gauge (bigger numbers are smaller
gauges--explain THAT to me!), and 18 gauge wire is already pretty small
stuff.
|
Bigger numbers are smaller wires for much the same reasons that shrimp are sized
the same way...an important characteristic of either is how many of them you can
cram into a given space....
Going back to the original question and the matter of "how many ways are there
to read this?", has anyone done musical time signatures yet?...3/4 there is
usually "three-quarter" or (less often) "three-four"...in that context you don't
reduce fractions to lowest terms, so 3/4 is not the same as 6/8....
I've never actually heard of anyone writing a piece in 72/2 time, but I've dealt
with enough early 1960s avant-garde music that I'm not tempted to rule it out
entirely....r |
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Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:54 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
| Quote: | Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
On 08 Nov 2005, Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote
re: consumer measurements in Britain
Today, petrol (gasoline), spirits, wine, fruit juice are in
litres but beer and milk are still in pints.
*Some* milk is still in pints: I've quite certain I've seen both
pints and 500ml containers of milk.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van
OK, I'll update that to "beer and milk are still commonly measured in
pints". Actually, it is draft beer that still in pints. Bottled and
canned beer is usually metric with 330ml being popular for some reason.
250ml and 500ml are also used. I don't recall seeing milk in metric
sizes but I won't deny that it exists. Could it have been some
non-standard type of milk such as UHT, chocolate, banana or soya?
|
This is why I moved to Canada. 12 years ago. I couldn't take it
anymore.
Now I buy lunchmeat by the gram, gasoline by the litre, and topsoil by
the cubic metre. I drive 100 kph on the highway to reach my destination
100 klicks away in 1 hour. Standard human body temperature is exactly
37 degrees.
I can sleep at night now. ;->
---larry |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:13 am
Post subject: Re: reading fractions |
|
|
Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
| Quote: | Seán O'Leathlóbhair wrote:
[...]
Sorry, I slipped there. Are small bottles of spirits "fifths"
rather
than "fourths"? Is that "fifth of a gallon" or "fifth of a pint"?
To me, a "fourth/quarter of a gallon" seems likely but a "fifth of
a
gallon" seems odd. A UK gallon is 8 pints. Why do think a quart
has
its name? To us it is a quarter of a gallon. How many pints in
your
gallon? Ditto pint can have a quarter here but not a fifth since
for
us it is 16 fluid ounces. This may explain my mistake.
Just a sec, I am no longer sure whether our pint is 16 fluid ounces
and
yours is 20 or vice versa. The only thing that I am sure of is
that
they are not the same. [...]
|
"The world around,
A pint's a pound" -- not!
"A pint of water
Weighs a pound and a quarter" -- sometimes.
Imperial pint is 20 floz, US 16. The fluid ounces are the same. The
origin of the US "fifth" is that it's the nearest memorable fraction
to the old-established standard wine-bottle of, I think, 76 cl. I
haven't looked closely, but I think the Euro-Antipond bottle is now a
stingy 70 cl.
--
Mike. |
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