| Author |
Message |
Nick
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:24 pm
Post subject: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
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I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
Nick
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131359063.974426.147310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: | I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
Why? Because. |
Some folks do. Some folks don't. I think. I can't say I have heard it
(I am in the US Midwest), but it may be that I just haven't been
listening.
What part of "Muslim" do you hear pronounced in a way that makes you
unhappy?
Is it the "u", the "i" or just the final "m"?
Is the word used in a sentence or phrase with a word after it, or is the
word in a final position?
Are the speakers everyday US people, or are they some particular
television or radio speakers?
Are they many speakers, or just one or two?
How do you pronounce it?
Is this the only word that is pronounced differently from what you think
it should be spoken? If it is, then "get over it". If not, let's hear
some more examples.
If you just got out of bed on the wrong side--that's OK. Things will
improve. |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:34:24 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131359063.974426.147310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
Why? Because.
Some folks do. Some folks don't. I think. I can't say I have heard it
(I am in the US Midwest), but it may be that I just haven't been
listening.
What part of "Muslim" do you hear pronounced in a way that makes you
unhappy?
Is it the "u", the "i" or just the final "m"?
|
Or the "s".
I posted a message in alt.usage.english on 18 Jul 2005 which I'll
reproduce here:
<quote>
Subject: Pronunciation of "Muslim"
In the (UK) Sunday Times today is a report by a columnist on a visit he
paid to a boys' Islamic School in London.
The boys are British-born of Bangladeshi parents, and:
seem to be all that we would want the Muslim British to be —
clear about and proud of both their identities, happily holding
two worlds in their young heads.
The writer quotes from several 15 and 16 year-olds, including Husain
who:
is even upset by our pronunciation. "You all say MuZlim and it
sounds like an insult. It should be MuSSlim."
</quote>
So, Nick, how do your pronounce the "s" in Muslim?
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u)
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Nick
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:58 am
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: | "Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131359063.974426.147310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
Why? Because.
Some folks do. Some folks don't. I think. I can't say I have heard it
(I am in the US Midwest), but it may be that I just haven't been
listening.
What part of "Muslim" do you hear pronounced in a way that makes you
unhappy?
Is it the "u", the "i" or just the final "m"?
Is the word used in a sentence or phrase with a word after it, or is the
word in a final position?
Are the speakers everyday US people, or are they some particular
television or radio speakers?
Are they many speakers, or just one or two?
How do you pronounce it?
Is this the only word that is pronounced differently from what you think
it should be spoken? If it is, then "get over it". If not, let's hear
some more examples.
If you just got out of bed on the wrong side--that's OK. Things will
improve.
~ |
OK - it just jars a little - for example everbody on Fox News seem to
say "muzlim" which is correct according to my dictionary, but English
people say "mooslim" which is also correct - just a lightheated little
observation! :-)
Nick |
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Nick
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:01 am
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
Peter Duncanson wrote:
| Quote: | On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:34:24 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com
wrote:
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131359063.974426.147310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
Why? Because.
Some folks do. Some folks don't. I think. I can't say I have heard it
(I am in the US Midwest), but it may be that I just haven't been
listening.
What part of "Muslim" do you hear pronounced in a way that makes you
unhappy?
Is it the "u", the "i" or just the final "m"?
Or the "s".
I posted a message in alt.usage.english on 18 Jul 2005 which I'll
reproduce here:
quote
Subject: Pronunciation of "Muslim"
In the (UK) Sunday Times today is a report by a columnist on a visit he
paid to a boys' Islamic School in London.
The boys are British-born of Bangladeshi parents, and:
seem to be all that we would want the Muslim British to be -
clear about and proud of both their identities, happily holding
two worlds in their young heads.
The writer quotes from several 15 and 16 year-olds, including Husain
who:
is even upset by our pronunciation. "You all say MuZlim and it
sounds like an insult. It should be MuSSlim."
/quote
So, Nick, how do your pronounce the "s" in Muslim?
--
~ |
Mooslim - the English way - I wouldn't say either sounds like an
insult, though.
Nick |
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Alan Jones
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131386468.882331.38390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Peter Duncanson wrote:
[...]
I posted a message in alt.usage.english on 18 Jul 2005 which I'll
reproduce here:
quote
Subject: Pronunciation of "Muslim"
In the (UK) Sunday Times today is a report by a columnist on a visit he
paid to a boys' Islamic School in London.
The boys are British-born of Bangladeshi parents, and:
seem to be all that we would want the Muslim British to be -
clear about and proud of both their identities, happily holding
two worlds in their young heads.
The writer quotes from several 15 and 16 year-olds, including Husain
who:
is even upset by our pronunciation. "You all say MuZlim and it
sounds like an insult. It should be MuSSlim."
/quote
So, Nick, how do your pronounce the "s" in Muslim?
--
~
Mooslim - the English way - I wouldn't say either sounds like an
insult, though.
|
NSOED gives the -z- version first (two different -u- vowels as in "moon" and
"muscle") with -s- as an alternative (no usage note). An older spelling, now
more or less disused, is "Moslem", with the -z- sound. Can anyone say
whether the offended boys may have thought the pronunciation with the -z-
unpleasantly similar to a different insulting word, or perhaps judged that
non-Muslims showed an insulting attitude by not bothering to simulate the
Arabic pronunciation?
Alan Jones |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:42 am
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
On 7 Nov 2005 09:58:51 -0800, "Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Pat Durkin wrote:
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131359063.974426.147310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
Why? Because.
Some folks do. Some folks don't. I think. I can't say I have heard it
(I am in the US Midwest), but it may be that I just haven't been
listening.
What part of "Muslim" do you hear pronounced in a way that makes you
unhappy?
Is it the "u", the "i" or just the final "m"?
Is the word used in a sentence or phrase with a word after it, or is the
word in a final position?
Are the speakers everyday US people, or are they some particular
television or radio speakers?
Are they many speakers, or just one or two?
How do you pronounce it?
Is this the only word that is pronounced differently from what you think
it should be spoken? If it is, then "get over it". If not, let's hear
some more examples.
If you just got out of bed on the wrong side--that's OK. Things will
improve.
~
OK - it just jars a little - for example everbody on Fox News seem to
say "muzlim" which is correct according to my dictionary, but English
people say "mooslim" which is also correct - just a lightheated little
observation! :-)
Nick
|
Wait! Your subject line says "muslin". I thought you were hearing
Americans say the word as they would say the name of the cotton
fabric. But now you say it's "muzlim" you hear instead of that
dreadful cow-like noise you say you make?
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:07 am
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
On 7 Nov 2005 10:01:08 -0800, "Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:34:24 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com
wrote:
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131359063.974426.147310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
Why? Because.
Some folks do. Some folks don't. I think. I can't say I have heard it
(I am in the US Midwest), but it may be that I just haven't been
listening.
What part of "Muslim" do you hear pronounced in a way that makes you
unhappy?
Is it the "u", the "i" or just the final "m"?
Or the "s".
I posted a message in alt.usage.english on 18 Jul 2005 which I'll
reproduce here:
quote
Subject: Pronunciation of "Muslim"
In the (UK) Sunday Times today is a report by a columnist on a visit he
paid to a boys' Islamic School in London.
The boys are British-born of Bangladeshi parents, and:
seem to be all that we would want the Muslim British to be -
clear about and proud of both their identities, happily holding
two worlds in their young heads.
The writer quotes from several 15 and 16 year-olds, including Husain
who:
is even upset by our pronunciation. "You all say MuZlim and it
sounds like an insult. It should be MuSSlim."
/quote
So, Nick, how do your pronounce the "s" in Muslim?
--
~
Mooslim - the English way - I wouldn't say either sounds like an
insult, though.
The boy mentioned above, Husain, is English. |
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u) |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:01 am
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
Nick wrote:
| Quote: | Pat Durkin wrote:
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131359063.974426.147310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
Why? Because.
Some folks do. Some folks don't. I think. I can't say I have heard it
(I am in the US Midwest), but it may be that I just haven't been
listening.
What part of "Muslim" do you hear pronounced in a way that makes you
unhappy?
Is it the "u", the "i" or just the final "m"?
Is the word used in a sentence or phrase with a word after it, or is the
word in a final position?
Are the speakers everyday US people, or are they some particular
television or radio speakers?
Are they many speakers, or just one or two?
How do you pronounce it?
Is this the only word that is pronounced differently from what you think
it should be spoken? If it is, then "get over it". If not, let's hear
some more examples.
If you just got out of bed on the wrong side--that's OK. Things will
improve.
~
OK - it just jars a little - for example everbody on Fox News seem to
say "muzlim" which is correct according to my dictionary, but English
people say "mooslim" which is also correct - just a lightheated little
observation! :-)
Nick
|
I think we should consider the influence of the Black Muslims, who for
many years were the only ones referred to as "Muslims" in the US--other
Muslims were called "Moslems." The Black Muslims (members of the Nation
of Islam) pronounced the word with the "u" sound of "up" and the "z"
sound of "muslin."
| Quote: | From my own perspective, the pronunciation which you prefer does not
seem like a natural pronunciation for an English word. I prefer to |
pronounce words borrowed from other languages following pronunciation
habits already in place. Although I speak French, I pronounce words
such as "elan" and "deja vu" according to English-language rules.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:01 am
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131386468.882331.38390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:34:24 GMT, "Pat Durkin"
durk183@sbcglobal.com
wrote:
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131359063.974426.147310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can
pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
Why? Because.
Some folks do. Some folks don't. I think. I can't say I have heard
it
(I am in the US Midwest), but it may be that I just haven't been
listening.
What part of "Muslim" do you hear pronounced in a way that makes you
unhappy?
Is it the "u", the "i" or just the final "m"?
Or the "s".
I posted a message in alt.usage.english on 18 Jul 2005 which I'll
reproduce here:
quote
Subject: Pronunciation of "Muslim"
In the (UK) Sunday Times today is a report by a columnist on a visit
he
paid to a boys' Islamic School in London.
The writer quotes from several 15 and 16 year-olds, including Husain
who:
is even upset by our pronunciation. "You all say MuZlim and it
sounds like an insult. It should be MuSSlim."
/quote
So, Nick, how do your pronounce the "s" in Muslim?
--
~
Mooslim - the English way - I wouldn't say either sounds like an
insult, though.
|
Well, I pronounce the "us" as in "puss", as opposed to "fuss". And many
of the people I speak with pronounce it that way, as well. No "z", and
no "n" at the end. You haven't explained if the "n" was a spelling
error or the way you hear a few USans speak the word Muslim. |
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Nick
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On 7 Nov 2005 09:58:51 -0800, "Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote:
Pat Durkin wrote:
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131359063.974426.147310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
Why? Because.
Some folks do. Some folks don't. I think. I can't say I have heard it
(I am in the US Midwest), but it may be that I just haven't been
listening.
What part of "Muslim" do you hear pronounced in a way that makes you
unhappy?
Is it the "u", the "i" or just the final "m"?
Is the word used in a sentence or phrase with a word after it, or is the
word in a final position?
Are the speakers everyday US people, or are they some particular
television or radio speakers?
Are they many speakers, or just one or two?
How do you pronounce it?
Is this the only word that is pronounced differently from what you think
it should be spoken? If it is, then "get over it". If not, let's hear
some more examples.
If you just got out of bed on the wrong side--that's OK. Things will
improve.
~
OK - it just jars a little - for example everbody on Fox News seem to
say "muzlim" which is correct according to my dictionary, but English
people say "mooslim" which is also correct - just a lightheated little
observation! :-)
Nick
Wait! Your subject line says "muslin". I thought you were hearing
Americans say the word as they would say the name of the cotton
fabric. But now you say it's "muzlim" you hear instead of that
dreadful cow-like noise you say you make?
~ |
LOL - sorry - I mean sounds like 'muslin', *not* a cow noise! :-)
It's just a light-hearted observation that the American pronounciation
always makes me think of the cotton cloth - no big deal! :-)
Nick |
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Nick
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On 7 Nov 2005 09:58:51 -0800, "Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote:
But now you say it's "muzlim" you hear instead of that
dreadful cow-like noise you say you make?
~ |
Erm - I try not to make a "deadful cow-like noise" when I say it! :-D
Nick |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 01:54:16 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131386468.882331.38390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:34:24 GMT, "Pat Durkin"
durk183@sbcglobal.com
wrote:
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131359063.974426.147310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can
pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
Why? Because.
Some folks do. Some folks don't. I think. I can't say I have heard
it
(I am in the US Midwest), but it may be that I just haven't been
listening.
What part of "Muslim" do you hear pronounced in a way that makes you
unhappy?
Is it the "u", the "i" or just the final "m"?
Or the "s".
I posted a message in alt.usage.english on 18 Jul 2005 which I'll
reproduce here:
quote
Subject: Pronunciation of "Muslim"
In the (UK) Sunday Times today is a report by a columnist on a visit
he
paid to a boys' Islamic School in London.
The writer quotes from several 15 and 16 year-olds, including Husain
who:
is even upset by our pronunciation. "You all say MuZlim and it
sounds like an insult. It should be MuSSlim."
/quote
So, Nick, how do your pronounce the "s" in Muslim?
--
~
Mooslim - the English way - I wouldn't say either sounds like an
insult, though.
Well, I pronounce the "us" as in "puss", as opposed to "fuss". And many
of the people I speak with pronounce it that way, as well. No "z", and
no "n" at the end. You haven't explained if the "n" was a spelling
error or the way you hear a few USans speak the word Muslim.
Rightly or wrongly, I took the OP's use of "muslin" to indicate the |
vowel sounds, stress, and intonation of the pronunciation of "muslim"
which he dislikes -- change "n" to "m" but pronounce everything else the
same.
As already discussed, this does depend on how "muslin" is pronounced.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u) |
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| Back to top |
|
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Pat Durkin
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:52 am
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131386331.297597.267510@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Quote: |
Pat Durkin wrote:
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131359063.974426.147310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can
pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
What part of "Muslim" do you hear pronounced in a way that makes you
unhappy?
Is this the only word that is pronounced differently from what you
think
it should be spoken? If it is, then "get over it". If not, let's
hear
some more examples.
If you just got out of bed on the wrong side--that's OK. Things will
improve.
~
OK - it just jars a little - for example everbody on Fox News seem to
say "muzlim" which is correct according to my dictionary, but English
people say "mooslim" which is also correct - just a lightheated
little
observation! 
|
Glad you can reconcile yourself to "the way it is".
For what it's worth, FoxNews jars me most of the time.
I can stand them for a while, especially in the morning, but mainly just
tune in to see what some of the topics are, and then off to other
channels. If it gets too, too, boring, I get busy doing something else,
or click on the "upper registers" of my Dish Network channels. I can
get FSTV (Free Speech) or LinkTV, or UWTV. I get health lectures,
Democracy Now!, Mosaic, and some other international music, lecture,
documentary programs. I think Melody Arabia is at 755. Also, some
call letters with an H in it indicates a Hispanic channel, in addition
to Univision. So I get some Mexican prograns--game shows or soap
operas or news.
If all bores me, then I have to go shopping or take a walk. I know then
that I am sick of me and need a change of company. |
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| Back to top |
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Nick
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Why do Americans pronounce 'Muslim' like 'muslin'? |
|
|
Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: | "Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131386468.882331.38390@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Peter Duncanson wrote:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:34:24 GMT, "Pat Durkin"
durk183@sbcglobal.com
wrote:
"Nick" <pacifico@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:1131359063.974426.147310@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I mean, being British, it's none of my business and they can
pronounce
it any way they like, but I *do* wish they wouldn't! :-D
Why? Because.
Some folks do. Some folks don't. I think. I can't say I have heard
it
(I am in the US Midwest), but it may be that I just haven't been
listening.
What part of "Muslim" do you hear pronounced in a way that makes you
unhappy?
Is it the "u", the "i" or just the final "m"?
Or the "s".
I posted a message in alt.usage.english on 18 Jul 2005 which I'll
reproduce here:
quote
Subject: Pronunciation of "Muslim"
In the (UK) Sunday Times today is a report by a columnist on a visit
he
paid to a boys' Islamic School in London.
The writer quotes from several 15 and 16 year-olds, including Husain
who:
is even upset by our pronunciation. "You all say MuZlim and it
sounds like an insult. It should be MuSSlim."
/quote
So, Nick, how do your pronounce the "s" in Muslim?
--
~
Mooslim - the English way - I wouldn't say either sounds like an
insult, though.
Well, I pronounce the "us" as in "puss", as opposed to "fuss". And many
of the people I speak with pronounce it that way, as well. No "z", and
no "n" at the end. You haven't explained if the "n" was a spelling
error or the way you hear a few USans speak the word Muslim.
~ |
'muslin' was spelt correctly.
I pronounce 'Muslim' the same as you - I think actual Muslims do, too -
'muslin' is pronounced MUZlin in England.
Goodness, but this can get complicated - I heard there's a talking
dictionary somewhere on the Web - it wouldn't arf clarify arguments!
:-)
Nick |
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