| Author |
Message |
iando
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Plural use of singular uncoutable nouns |
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Nouns expressing subjects such as mathematics (math), language, science are
generally used in singular.
But when these nouns mean someone's grade or record of the subject, they are
used as plural.
Note:"Physics" is exceptionally used for such a meaning in sigular.
Example:
How are his math?
How are his science?
How is his physics? exceptional
Are these uses generally acceptable?Can be these used in literary
expressions?
Thanks |
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Lars Eighner
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Plural use of singular uncoutable nouns |
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In our last episode,
<newscache$qnikpi$o83$1@news01a.so-net.ne.jp>,
the lovely and talented iando
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
| Quote: | Nouns expressing subjects such as mathematics (math),
language, science are generally used in singular.
|
"Math" is "maths" in BrE.
| Quote: | But when these nouns mean someone's grade or record of the
subject, they are used as plural.
|
Not so far as I know.
| Quote: | Note:"Physics" is exceptionally used for such a meaning in sigular.
Example:
How are his math?
No.
How are his science?
No.
How is his physics? exceptional
Yes. |
| Quote: | Are these uses generally acceptable? Can be these used in literary
expressions?
|
No.
How is his science?
- What scientific ablity does he have? What is his score on
a test of scientific aptitude or ability? What is his grade in
a general science course? Is his paper supported with properly
applied scientific reasoning and evidence?
How are his sciences?
- What are his grades in several science courses (biology,
physics, chemistry, and so forth).
There may be specific uses in some institutions or contexts
which are different. For example, in the US "How is his
verbal?" in some offices will be understood to mean "What is his
score on the verbal section of the SAT?"
All of these expressions are somewhat informal.
--
Lars Eighner usenet@larseighner.com http://www.larseighner.com/
Brevity is the soul of lingerie. --Dorothy Parker |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Plural use of singular uncoutable nouns |
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"iando" <iando@abox.so-net.ne.jp> wrote in message
news:newscache$qnikpi$o83$1@news01a.so-net.ne.jp...
| Quote: | Nouns expressing subjects such as mathematics (math), language, science
are
generally used in singular.
But when these nouns mean someone's grade or record of the subject, they
are
used as plural.
|
So far as this is true, it is explained as elliptical.
Case 1: Mathematics is taught here (similarly for
logistics, linguistics, eurhythmics, etc. all singular.)
Case 2: John's maths was higher last term
= John's [mark for] maths was higher last term.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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John Lawler
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:55 am
Post subject: Re: Plural use of singular uncoutable nouns |
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iando <iando@abox.so-net.ne.jp> writes:
| Quote: | Nouns expressing subjects such as mathematics (math), language, science are
generally used in singular.
But when these nouns mean someone's grade or record of the subject, they are
used as plural.
Note:"Physics" is exceptionally used for such a meaning in sigular.
Example:
How are his math?
How are his science?
How is his physics? exceptional
Are these uses generally acceptable?Can be these used in literary
expressions?
|
First, there's a big difference between English and American
usage. Americans say "math", never "maths", and it's always
singular and mass. Likewise, "mathematics" and "physics" are
simple singular mass nouns in American English; never
*physics/*mathematics are; always "is". I can't speak for
British English, and therefore don't.
Second, you should know that proper names and nicknames are
extremely local, and you should expect that usage at one school
can be very different from usage elsewhere. Most people outside
of schools don't ever use these words, so they're unanchored.
Other than that, sure.
-John Lawler * Linguistics @ umich.edu & wwu.edu
-------------------------------------------------
"The great thing about human language is that it
prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
-- Lewis Thomas |
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Seán O'Leathlóbhair
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 5:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Plural use of singular uncoutable nouns |
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John Lawler wrote:
| Quote: | iando <iando@abox.so-net.ne.jp> writes:
Nouns expressing subjects such as mathematics (math), language, science are
generally used in singular.
But when these nouns mean someone's grade or record of the subject, they are
used as plural.
Note:"Physics" is exceptionally used for such a meaning in sigular.
Example:
How are his math?
How are his science?
How is his physics? exceptional
Are these uses generally acceptable?Can be these used in literary
expressions?
First, there's a big difference between English and American
usage. Americans say "math", never "maths", and it's always
singular and mass. Likewise, "mathematics" and "physics" are
simple singular mass nouns in American English; never
*physics/*mathematics are; always "is". I can't speak for
British English, and therefore don't.
Second, you should know that proper names and nicknames are
extremely local, and you should expect that usage at one school
can be very different from usage elsewhere. Most people outside
of schools don't ever use these words, so they're unanchored.
Other than that, sure.
-John Lawler * Linguistics @ umich.edu & wwu.edu
-------------------------------------------------
"The great thing about human language is that it
prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
-- Lewis Thomas
|
I am not an expert but I am a native BrE speaker. The following
describes my own usage but I believe that it is typical over here.
Indeed, we abbreviate "mathematics" to "maths" but despite the extra
"s" it is still a singular mass noun. E.g. "Maths is not difficult".
The following do not sound natural to me:
* How are his math(s)?
* How are his science?
I would never say them nor would I expect to hear them from a fellow
Brit. They may just be possible in an exchange such as this:
A: I got Billy's school results today. His English results are
good.
B: How are his maths?
But I would regard this as really being "How are his maths results?"
with the "results" suppressed. The exchange would be likely if more
than one result per subject was expected e.g. Eng Lang B, Eng Lit A,
Pure Maths C, Applied Maths B.
If A had said:
A: I got Billy's school results today. His English is good.
Then I would not expect the same from B. Maybe the following:
B: How is his maths? How are his sciences?
This exchange is likely if only one result per subject is expected.
B's second sentence uses "are" but note that "sciences" is plural.
This is because science is commonly taught as multiple subjects e.g.
physics, chemistry and biology. So, even if there is just one result
per subject, there may be multiple results for science subjects.
--
Seán O'Leathlóbhair |
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