| Author |
Message |
Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Live Fire |
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On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 04:04:36 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | But don't you think that people who ignore live fire invite fragging and
friendly fire?
|
Did fragging exist to any large extent, I wonder, before the Vietnam
war?
--
Charles Riggs |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Live Fire |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:32:41 -0800, "Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus
of recirculation')" <John.Methuen@magersfontein.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Mark Brader wrote:
Bill Bonde:
It's an AA battery,
*I* was talking about a AAA.
Like there's any difference in its ability to bite you.
|
What in the world are you talking about? There's no way 1.5 volts can
bite you, not even if you place the battery terminals on your tongue.
By the way, a crude test to see if a 9 volt battery is at all
functional is to do just that -- you'll receive a mild sting if it is
good, no more. I learned this trick from a German technician when I
were a mere lad.
--
Charles Riggs |
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Bill Bonde ('by a commodi
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Live Fire |
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Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: |
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 16:32:41 -0800, "Bill Bonde ('by a commodius vicus
of recirculation')" <John.Methuen@magersfontein.co.uk> wrote:
Mark Brader wrote:
Bill Bonde:
It's an AA battery,
*I* was talking about a AAA.
Like there's any difference in its ability to bite you.
What in the world are you talking about? There's no way 1.5 volts can
bite you, not even if you place the battery terminals on your tongue.
They are the same voltage, the two battery sizes, AA and AAA, both being |
a single cell and the same chemistry, if one is to sensibly compares
them. So in that sense both would not bite you. Of course in the
described case, the AA bat was aided by a flash charging circuit in a
disposable camera. I assure you that that is enough to bite you. From
the lowly 1.5 volt cell even.
| Quote: | By the way, a crude test to see if a 9 volt battery is at all
functional is to do just that -- you'll receive a mild sting if it is
good, no more. I learned this trick from a German technician when I
were a mere lad.
Try to calculate the minimum voltage needed to cause ten milliamps to |
run through the victim's heart creating the effect of a crude --maybe
that's less crude than the smoke billowing thousands of volts sort--
electric chair including the use of all means to overcome skin
resistant, the most obvious being to insert metal needles into a vein
and into an artery both connected to opposite poles of that nine volt
battery.
--
Why do sequels seem not to continue the story but instead retell the
original? I still want to see a real sequel to "Universal Soldier" where
the new girlfriend and the reanimated soldier who has to take a break
and recharge in a special recharge machine every few days, and might
melt if he gets too excited, learns to live within his limitations,
perhaps getting a job selling life insurance nine to five while starting
his own country western band as an evening outlet, finally taking the
time out in his life for romance and smelling the lovely flowers. Have
some guts Hollywood, turn a full out violent action movie into a woman
friendly romantic comedy sequel! |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:18 am
Post subject: Re: Live Fire |
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Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 04:04:36 GMT, "Pat Durkin"
durk183@sbcglobal.com
wrote:
But don't you think that people who ignore live fire invite
fragging
and friendly fire?
Did fragging exist to any large extent, I wonder, before the
Vietnam
war?
|
I don't know about the specific use of grenades for the purpose, but
it was not unknown for "pig" Australian officers to disappear or
otherwise meet with unauthorised ends during WW2, according to my
father, who presumably wasn't one of the porcine ones.
--
Mike. |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Live Fire |
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On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 17:18:59 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Charles Riggs wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 04:04:36 GMT, "Pat Durkin"
durk183@sbcglobal.com
wrote:
But don't you think that people who ignore live fire invite
fragging
and friendly fire?
Did fragging exist to any large extent, I wonder, before the
Vietnam
war?
I don't know about the specific use of grenades for the purpose, but
it was not unknown for "pig" Australian officers to disappear or
otherwise meet with unauthorised ends during WW2, according to my
father, who presumably wasn't one of the porcine ones.
|
In Vietnam deaths caused by fragging were frequently from the result
of a bullet impacting the back of an unseasoned Lieutenant's head. I'm
not sure how often grenades were used for the job.
--
Charles Riggs |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Live Fire |
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Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 17:18:59 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Charles Riggs wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 04:04:36 GMT, "Pat Durkin"
durk183@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
But don't you think that people who ignore live fire invite
fragging and friendly fire?
Did fragging exist to any large extent, I wonder, before the
Vietnam
war?
I don't know about the specific use of grenades for the purpose,
but
it was not unknown for "pig" Australian officers to disappear or
otherwise meet with unauthorised ends during WW2, according to my
father, who presumably wasn't one of the porcine ones.
In Vietnam deaths caused by fragging were frequently from the
result
of a bullet impacting the back of an unseasoned Lieutenant's head.
I'm
not sure how often grenades were used for the job.
|
But didn't the expression originate from the real or notional use of
fragmentation grenades? (What my father's generation knew as "Mills
bombs", though I suppose the American one was a different species.)
--
Mike. |
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Bill Bonde ('by a commodi
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:17 am
Post subject: Re: Live Fire |
|
|
Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: |
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 17:18:59 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Charles Riggs wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 04:04:36 GMT, "Pat Durkin"
durk183@sbcglobal.com
wrote:
But don't you think that people who ignore live fire invite
fragging
and friendly fire?
Did fragging exist to any large extent, I wonder, before the
Vietnam
war?
I don't know about the specific use of grenades for the purpose, but
it was not unknown for "pig" Australian officers to disappear or
otherwise meet with unauthorised ends during WW2, according to my
father, who presumably wasn't one of the porcine ones.
In Vietnam deaths caused by fragging were frequently from the result
of a bullet impacting the back of an unseasoned Lieutenant's head. I'm
not sure how often grenades were used for the job.
I suspect one would want to not use one's own weapon or even an American |
weapon to do this. That's how one of the guy's now accused of fragging
in Iraq got caught.
--
Why do sequels seem not to continue the story but instead retell the
original? I still want to see a real sequel to "Universal Soldier" where
the new girlfriend and the reanimated soldier who has to take a break
and recharge in a special recharge machine every few days, and might
melt if he gets too excited, learns to live within his limitations,
perhaps getting a job selling life insurance nine to five while starting
his own country western band as an evening outlet, finally taking the
time out in his life for romance and smelling the lovely flowers. Have
some guts Hollywood, turn a full out violent action movie into a woman
friendly romantic comedy sequel! |
|
| Back to top |
|
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Brian Wickham
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Live Fire |
|
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On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 03:19:36 +0000, Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net>
wrote:
snip
| Quote: | In Vietnam deaths caused by fragging were frequently from the
result
of a bullet impacting the back of an unseasoned Lieutenant's head.
I'm
not sure how often grenades were used for the job.
But didn't the expression originate from the real or notional use of
fragmentation grenades? (What my father's generation knew as "Mills
bombs", though I suppose the American one was a different species.)
Oddly enough, that hadn't occurred to me. Yes, there must be a
connection.
|
A definite connection. When I was there in 1968-69 it was the first
time I heard of "fragging" and it was understood by all to be a
reference to a fragmentation grenade. The image was of rolling a
grenade under the cot of some officer or nco. In reality that would be
hard to do as you couldn't get far enough away before it went off.
It was believed by most soldiers, rightly or wrongly, that some
officers listed as killed in fire fights with the enemy had actually
been shot by their own men who had spotted a golden opportunity to get
rid of a pest. These incidents were also considered to be examples of
"fragging".
You may want to view the movie "Platoon" in this light. When I saw it
I got the impression that it was an elaborate justification for
"fragging" a superior who you perceive as someone all too willing to
get you killed. What if we are actually watching the frenzied
thoughts of Charlie Sheen's character as he builds to a justification
of ridding the world of a demon? What if the demon exists only in his
mind? He thinks he's perfectly sane, just as a murderer of doctors
who perform abortions.
An aspect of the Vietnam experience that is usually overlooked is
"short timer's fever". Most soldiers were leaving when their one-year
tour was up. If you were a combat soldier you started to get a bit
antsy as you got closer to that date and started to worry every time
you had to go on patrol. Under this kind of stress it was easy to
start viewing some particular officer or nco as singling you out. It
was not an unreasonable notion. When transferring off a post in the
States you sometimes found yourself pulling guard duty or KP out of
your usual rotation. Why? Because some sergeants loved to break balls
and they knew they would never see you again. It was all part of the
mind games they loved to play.
Brian Wickham |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Live Fire |
|
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On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 13:34:54 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | Charles Riggs wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 17:18:59 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Charles Riggs wrote:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 04:04:36 GMT, "Pat Durkin"
durk183@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
But don't you think that people who ignore live fire invite
fragging and friendly fire?
Did fragging exist to any large extent, I wonder, before the
Vietnam
war?
I don't know about the specific use of grenades for the purpose,
but
it was not unknown for "pig" Australian officers to disappear or
otherwise meet with unauthorised ends during WW2, according to my
father, who presumably wasn't one of the porcine ones.
In Vietnam deaths caused by fragging were frequently from the
result
of a bullet impacting the back of an unseasoned Lieutenant's head.
I'm
not sure how often grenades were used for the job.
But didn't the expression originate from the real or notional use of
fragmentation grenades? (What my father's generation knew as "Mills
bombs", though I suppose the American one was a different species.)
|
Oddly enough, that hadn't occurred to me. Yes, there must be a
connection.
--
Charles Riggs |
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