| Author |
Message |
batdorf
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:14 am
Post subject: Raffled Anchor |
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Some weeks ago, while staying at my cottage in Whitby, I came across a
reference to a public house called "The Raffled Anchor" which had once
stood in Grape Lane (c.1890)
This appears to be the only recorded instance of this name ever being
used for a public house. The implication seems obvious, I
suppose...Either an anchor (or perhaps an anchor together with it's
attached vessel!) had at some point been "raffled" (or, perhaps,
"plundered"?) but I can find no other reference to it. Etymonline.com
traces the word "raffle" along several tortuous routes.
It could be dialectical, or a distortion of something else?
(Even today, some of the older inhabitants are virtually
incomprehensible!)
Can anyone shed any light on this "curiosity"?
Thanks.
HumphreyB
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:27 am
Post subject: Re: Raffled Anchor |
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On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 00:14:12 +0100, "batdorf" <bat@nospam.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Some weeks ago, while staying at my cottage in Whitby, I came across a
reference to a public house called "The Raffled Anchor" which had once
stood in Grape Lane (c.1890)
This appears to be the only recorded instance of this name ever being
used for a public house. The implication seems obvious, I
suppose...Either an anchor (or perhaps an anchor together with it's
attached vessel!) had at some point been "raffled" (or, perhaps,
"plundered"?) but I can find no other reference to it. Etymonline.com
traces the word "raffle" along several tortuous routes.
It could be dialectical, or a distortion of something else?
(Even today, some of the older inhabitants are virtually
incomprehensible!)
Can anyone shed any light on this "curiosity"?
The OED has: |
Raffle sb2
2 b. Naut. lumber, debris, a confused tangle of ropes, canvas,
broken spars, etc.
If "raffle" derives from that meaning then the inn sign might have shown
an anchor entangled with some of the abovementioned stuff.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.u.e) |
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Raffled Anchor |
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On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:27:50 +0000, Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 00:14:12 +0100, "batdorf" <bat@nospam.com> wrote:
Some weeks ago, while staying at my cottage in Whitby, I came across a
reference to a public house called "The Raffled Anchor" which had once
stood in Grape Lane (c.1890)
This appears to be the only recorded instance of this name ever being
used for a public house. The implication seems obvious, I
suppose...Either an anchor (or perhaps an anchor together with it's
|
Oy!
| Quote: | attached vessel!) had at some point been "raffled" (or, perhaps,
"plundered"?) but I can find no other reference to it. Etymonline.com
traces the word "raffle" along several tortuous routes.
It could be dialectical, or a distortion of something else?
(Even today, some of the older inhabitants are virtually
incomprehensible!)
Can anyone shed any light on this "curiosity"?
The OED has:
Raffle sb2
2 b. Naut. lumber, debris, a confused tangle of ropes, canvas,
broken spars, etc.
If "raffle" derives from that meaning then the inn sign might have shown
an anchor entangled with some of the abovementioned stuff.
|
Related, do we think, to "ravel", as in "unravel"?
--
Jim
the polymoth
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Raffled Anchor |
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On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 07:46:14 GMT, Jim Lawton
<usenet1@jimlawton.TAKEOUTinfo> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:27:50 +0000, Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net
wrote:
Either an anchor (or perhaps an anchor together with it's
Oy!
attached vessel!)...
|
Not Oyable, Jim -- too trivial, too common, too uninteresting. Dive
into some of Coop's posts for examples of the memorably Oyable.
--
Charles Riggs |
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Prai Jei
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Raffled Anchor |
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Jim Lawton (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
<n8drm1p51lefikjgupcdffasa5cflbn7ou@4ax.com>:
| Quote: | On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:27:50 +0000, Peter Duncanson
mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 00:14:12 +0100, "batdorf" <bat@nospam.com> wrote:
Some weeks ago, while staying at my cottage in Whitby, I came across a
reference to a public house called "The Raffled Anchor" which had once
stood in Grape Lane (c.1890)
This appears to be the only recorded instance of this name ever being
used for a public house. The implication seems obvious, I
suppose...Either an anchor (or perhaps an anchor together with it's
Oy!
attached vessel!) had at some point been "raffled" (or, perhaps,
"plundered"?) but I can find no other reference to it. Etymonline.com
traces the word "raffle" along several tortuous routes.
It could be dialectical, or a distortion of something else?
(Even today, some of the older inhabitants are virtually
incomprehensible!)
Can anyone shed any light on this "curiosity"?
The OED has:
Raffle sb2
2 b. Naut. lumber, debris, a confused tangle of ropes, canvas,
broken spars, etc.
If "raffle" derives from that meaning then the inn sign might have shown
an anchor entangled with some of the abovementioned stuff.
Related, do we think, to "ravel", as in "unravel"?
|
No, he's the frog wot wrote Bolero.
--
Pelagiarism: passing off somebody else's heresy as your own
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Raffled Anchor |
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On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 07:46:14 GMT, Jim Lawton
<usenet1@jimlawton.TAKEOUTinfo> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:27:50 +0000, Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 00:14:12 +0100, "batdorf" <bat@nospam.com> wrote:
Some weeks ago, while staying at my cottage in Whitby, I came across a
reference to a public house called "The Raffled Anchor" which had once
stood in Grape Lane (c.1890)
This appears to be the only recorded instance of this name ever being
used for a public house. The implication seems obvious, I
suppose...Either an anchor (or perhaps an anchor together with it's
Oy!
attached vessel!) had at some point been "raffled" (or, perhaps,
"plundered"?) but I can find no other reference to it. Etymonline.com
traces the word "raffle" along several tortuous routes.
It could be dialectical, or a distortion of something else?
(Even today, some of the older inhabitants are virtually
incomprehensible!)
Can anyone shed any light on this "curiosity"?
The OED has:
Raffle sb2
2 b. Naut. lumber, debris, a confused tangle of ropes, canvas,
broken spars, etc.
If "raffle" derives from that meaning then the inn sign might have shown
an anchor entangled with some of the abovementioned stuff.
Related, do we think, to "ravel", as in "unravel"?
|
OED suggests that "raffle" (in the current sense) comes from Old French,
along with "raff" as in "riff raff".
Ravel n. from ravel v. apparently adopted from Dutch ravelen "to tangle,
fray, unweave," from rafel "frayed thread.
(My copy of OED1 is the compact, photoreduced, printed version.
Providing anything more than very short quotes is impracticable.)
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.u.e) |
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Ray Heindl
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:49 am
Post subject: Re: Raffled Anchor |
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Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
| Quote: | The OED has:
Raffle sb2
2 b. Naut. lumber, debris, a confused tangle of ropes, canvas,
broken spars, etc.
If "raffle" derives from that meaning then the inn sign might have
shown an anchor entangled with some of the abovementioned stuff.
|
I wonder if "raffled anchor" is another term for "foul anchor", an
anchor with its chain or rope wrapped around it, as is used in various
emblems, such as that of the US Marine Corps.
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply) |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:33 am
Post subject: Re: Raffled Anchor |
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On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 20:49:51 GMT, Ray Heindl <vortren-newsx@yaxhoo.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
The OED has:
Raffle sb2
2 b. Naut. lumber, debris, a confused tangle of ropes, canvas,
broken spars, etc.
If "raffle" derives from that meaning then the inn sign might have
shown an anchor entangled with some of the abovementioned stuff.
I wonder if "raffled anchor" is another term for "foul anchor", an
anchor with its chain or rope wrapped around it, as is used in various
emblems, such as that of the US Marine Corps.
|
It seems possible. I was trying to retrieve the phrase "foul anchor" but
it wouldn't come to the surface. Thanks for mentioning it.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.u.e) |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Raffled Anchor |
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On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 05:42:45 +0100, "batdorf" <bat@nospam.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Charles Riggs" <chriggs@éircom.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:fhlrm1lo6ng3eqq7th0hmt2og0vi339h08@4ax.com...
together with it's
Oy!
attached vessel!)...
Not Oyable, Jim -- too trivial, too common,
I don't think it's trivial, and it's its commonness that makes it not
so!
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Whatever turns you on...
--
Charles Riggs |
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batdorf
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Raffled Anchor |
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"Peter Duncanson" wrote:
| Quote: | The OED has:
Raffle sb2
2 b. Naut. lumber, debris, a confused tangle of ropes, canvas,
broken spars, etc.
If "raffle" derives from that meaning then the inn sign might have
shown
an anchor entangled with some of the abovementioned stuff.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.u.e)
|
Jim Lawton wrote:
| Quote: | Related, do we think, to "ravel", as in "unravel"?
|
Ray Heindll wrote:
| Quote: | I wonder if "raffled anchor" is another term for "foul anchor", an
anchor with its chain or rope wrapped around it, as is used in various
emblems, such as that of the US Marine Corps.
|
Thanks for those...
Far more probable than anything involving the usual meaning of the word.
The sign will no doubt provide the answer if I can find out what it
was...
HumphreyB |
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batdorf
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Raffled Anchor |
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"Charles Riggs" <chriggs@éircom.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:fhlrm1lo6ng3eqq7th0hmt2og0vi339h08@4ax.com...
| Quote: | together with it's
Oy!
attached vessel!)...
Not Oyable, Jim -- too trivial, too common,
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I don't think it's trivial, and it's its commonness that makes it not
so!
HumphreyB |
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J. J. Lodder
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Raffled Anchor |
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Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 07:46:14 GMT, Jim Lawton
usenet1@jimlawton.TAKEOUTinfo> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:27:50 +0000, Peter Duncanson <mail@peterduncanson.net
wrote:
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 00:14:12 +0100, "batdorf" <bat@nospam.com> wrote:
Some weeks ago, while staying at my cottage in Whitby, I came across a
reference to a public house called "The Raffled Anchor" which had once
stood in Grape Lane (c.1890)
This appears to be the only recorded instance of this name ever being
used for a public house. The implication seems obvious, I
suppose...Either an anchor (or perhaps an anchor together with it's
Oy!
attached vessel!) had at some point been "raffled" (or, perhaps,
"plundered"?) but I can find no other reference to it. Etymonline.com
traces the word "raffle" along several tortuous routes.
It could be dialectical, or a distortion of something else?
(Even today, some of the older inhabitants are virtually
incomprehensible!)
Can anyone shed any light on this "curiosity"?
The OED has:
Raffle sb2
2 b. Naut. lumber, debris, a confused tangle of ropes, canvas,
broken spars, etc.
If "raffle" derives from that meaning then the inn sign might have shown
an anchor entangled with some of the abovementioned stuff.
Related, do we think, to "ravel", as in "unravel"?
OED suggests that "raffle" (in the current sense) comes from Old French,
along with "raff" as in "riff raff".
Ravel n. from ravel v. apparently adopted from Dutch ravelen "to tangle,
fray, unweave," from rafel "frayed thread.
|
'Rafelen' with an f. About equivalent to English 'to fray'.
It refers mostly to something woven coming apart.
Also fig.: ontrafelen: solving a complicated riddle or puzzle.
Best,
Jan
PS 'raveel' also exists: it is a specific piece of the wooden beams
in the construction of a house. Not related, clearly. |
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