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Message |
Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:36 pm
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 10:11:55 +0000, Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | ObAue: "Ulysses" has been translated into more than twenty languages.
What do translators do when they come to a paragraph like the above?
It's from Episode 12 - Cyclops if you happen to have a non-English
version of "Ulysses" at hand.
Yikes! *Chapter* 12.
|
"Episode", rather than "Chapter" is used quite a bit. For example,
see http://www.rte.ie/readingulysses/episode2.html which is RTE.ie's
webpage. That's Ireland's radio and television broadcast station.
I'd have to look at a copy of the book to see which would be right.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
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Jeffrey Turner
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 7:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 10:11:55 +0000, Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net
wrote:
ObAue: "Ulysses" has been translated into more than twenty languages.
What do translators do when they come to a paragraph like the above?
It's from Episode 12 - Cyclops if you happen to have a non-English
version of "Ulysses" at hand.
Yikes! *Chapter* 12.
"Episode", rather than "Chapter" is used quite a bit. For example,
see http://www.rte.ie/readingulysses/episode2.html which is RTE.ie's
webpage. That's Ireland's radio and television broadcast station.
I'd have to look at a copy of the book to see which would be right.
|
Radio serials have episodes? Fancy that.
--Jeff
--
When people are fanatically dedicated
to political or religious faiths or any
other kind of dogmas or goals, it's
always because these dogmas or goals
are in doubt. -Robert T. Pirsig |
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TakenEvent
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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"Mark Brader" <msb@vex.net> wrote in message
news:11mqj4pv7t2tdc@corp.supernews.com...
| Quote: |
Jim Lawton:
See "Fargo".
John Dean:
Fargo, North Dakota?
The movie. For those who haven't seen it, most of the movie "Fargo"
takes place around Brainerd, Minnesota; but there is an early scene
in Fargo. Yes, North Dakota.
snip
|
Brainerd, I've heard from residents of that town, is where the movie was
filmed, too. I was there once, but that was before I saw the movie.
Cell phone reception in Fargo, North Dakota is excellent -- in case anyone
was thinking about visiting.
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sage
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:52 am
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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Maria Conlon wrote:
| Quote: | sage wrote:
Maria Conlon wrote:
John Dean wrote:
Jim Lawton wrote:
Bob wrote, in part:
The jokes can't be made generic since they depend not on a general
misunderstanding of English as a language but a confusion over
accents (and a presumed level of cluelessness). That is supposed
to be a Swedish accent the Minnesotans speak with. There is a
large population of Sweedish descent in the area.
See "Fargo".
Fargo, North Dakota?
Bob may have been referring to the movie "Fargo." But either way,
Fargo ND is just across the state line (border) from Minnesota. I
think Duluth (Minnesota) and Superior (Wisconsin) are close
neighbors. And then there's Detroit (Michigan) and Windsor (Ontario,
Canada).
Erm, 'scuse moi: What does the last sentence have to do with owt?
"Owt" = "anything"?
Well, anyway, (1) John asked about "Fargo" being a reference to jokes
about Minnesota when Fargo is in North Dakota. (That was my take on what
John meant.) After mentioning the movie, I went on to point out that
Fargo is a border town, leaving unsaid that in border towns there's a
lot of back-and-forth traffic. The same applies with Duluth/Superior and
with Detroit/Windsor (though the latter border is not a state border).
I only added Detroit/Windsor (as opposed to Cincinnati, Ohio/Covington,
Kentucky, or some other border towns) because I used to live in Detroit
(and visit Windsor a lot) and still live nearby (and visit Windsor a lot).
If that explanation still leaves the sentence in question questionable,
just assume that I lost my my grip for a moment. (What the heck. That
might actually be true.)
Yes, "owt" means "anything" in the northerly parts of England. |
Also, we love it when you lose your grip -- even a little bit.
Cheers, Sage |
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sage
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:02 am
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: | "sage" <sage@allstream.net> wrote in message
news:dv8bf.1611$hW.220@tor-nn1...
Pat Durkin wrote:
"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:f7fpm1t3eaevrd7igrdjcg3gcf28e81qli@4ax.com...
On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:30:39 +0000, JF <jf@NOSPAMmarage.demon.co.uk
I was sent a joke this morning that depends on misunderstood English
by
people from rural Minnesota. Are those from Minnesota the butt of
such
jokes in America? In England the joke could be rejigged to make
Irishmen
the fall (sic) guys.
(Snip)
Wisconsin has a goodly number of
Swedes, Norwegians, Danes and Finns. (I don't really know if the
Finns are considered Scandinavian, though.)
(Snip)
In reply to Pat Durkin's post (your signature and stuff disappeared):
Generally, in my experience, they consider themselves Nordic rather
than Scandinavian.
The Finns? I wonder about the Danes. I suppose the Baltic Sea makes
some difference in terms of separation. The Norwegians I know frequently
refer to themselves as Norskies, or as Scandihoovians.
Now, my niece married a Lithuanian, (I think the lad is first generation
US), and he is definitely Nordic in appearance. I don't know how the
Lithuanians compare (or regard themselves) in comparison with the Letts
or Estonians, or even Western Russians.
If by "Nordic in appearance" you mean blonde etc. then I have to say |
that my two Norwegian friends are both tall and dark-haired.
The story goes that an Italian explorer drove his ship ashore some
centuries ago on rocks around the Lofoten Islands and decided to stay.
He was dark of hair and swarthy of visage, so my Norwegian friends tell
me ... just as they are.
Many Finns are dark of hair although there are lots of fair ones as a
result of the Swedish "occupation" and of course, the Germans were in
Finland during WWII. It's a country with a remarkable history.
Cheers, Sage |
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sage
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:05 am
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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Don Phillipson wrote:
| Quote: | "JF" <jf@NOSPAMmarage.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:TZxbXjA$PLbDFw8d@marage.demon.co.uk...
I was sent a joke this morning that depends on misunderstood English by
people from rural Minnesota. Are those from Minnesota the butt of such
jokes in America? In England the joke could be rejigged to make Irishmen
the fall (sic) guys.
This general class of jokes used to be known in the
USA as Polish Jokes (and in Canada as Newfoundland
Jokes.)
And in Sweden as Norwegian jokes. But then the Finns have Swedish jokes |
and so on, and so on ...
Cheers, Sage |
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R H Draney
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:40 am
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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TakenEvent filted:
| Quote: |
Cell phone reception in Fargo, North Dakota is excellent -- in case anyone
was thinking about visiting.
|
Doubtless this is an effect of the considerable number of Finnish residents....r |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:42 am
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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"sage" <sage@allstream.net> wrote in message
news:IXvbf.1618$hW.340@tor-nn1...
| Quote: | Pat Durkin wrote:
"sage" <sage@allstream.net> wrote in message
news:dv8bf.1611$hW.220@tor-nn1...
Pat Durkin wrote:
"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:f7fpm1t3eaevrd7igrdjcg3gcf28e81qli@4ax.com...
On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:30:39 +0000, JF <jf@NOSPAMmarage.demon.co.uk
I was sent a joke this morning that depends on misunderstood
English by
people from rural Minnesota. Are those from Minnesota the butt of
such
jokes in America? In England the joke could be rejigged to make
Irishmen
the fall (sic) guys.
(Snip)
Wisconsin has a goodly number of
Swedes, Norwegians, Danes and Finns. (I don't really know if the
Finns are considered Scandinavian, though.)
(Snip)
In reply to Pat Durkin's post (your signature and stuff disappeared):
Generally, in my experience, they consider themselves Nordic rather
than Scandinavian.
The Finns? I wonder about the Danes. I suppose the Baltic Sea makes
some difference in terms of separation. The Norwegians I know
frequently refer to themselves as Norskies, or as Scandihoovians.
Now, my niece married a Lithuanian, (I think the lad is first
generation US), and he is definitely Nordic in appearance. I don't
know how the Lithuanians compare (or regard themselves) in comparison
with the Letts or Estonians, or even Western Russians.
If by "Nordic in appearance" you mean blonde etc. then I have to say
that my two Norwegian friends are both tall and dark-haired.
The story goes that an Italian explorer drove his ship ashore some
centuries ago on rocks around the Lofoten Islands and decided to stay.
He was dark of hair and swarthy of visage, so my Norwegian friends
tell me ... just as they are.
Many Finns are dark of hair although there are lots of fair ones as a
result of the Swedish "occupation" and of course, the Germans were in
Finland during WWII. It's a country with a remarkable history.
|
I can recall descriptions of Finns that seemed to emphasize a Slavic
appearance (or even an Eskimo look), with dark hair, dark, narrow eyes,
and high or prominent cheekbones. The only Finn from Finnland that I
ever met was a tall young woman who was of Swedish ancestry. She was
Finnish only because the island she lived on belongs to Finland. I have
met others of Finnish descent, but can't say they looked particularly
"Nordic". Am I a racist to use the term? I thought it was a commonly
understood description of Northern Europeans, possibly those from the
Baltic peninsula, but also around the Baltic Sea. So, tall and blond is
what I mean.
The people of almost exclusively Norwegian from my area of Wisconsin are
basically tall and blond, but not invariably so. My niece's Lithuanian
husband is six feet, seven inches, with light brown to blond hair. My
niece, being of mixed Italian/Irish/German descent is just 5 feet one
inch in height, with dark hair, eyes and skin. The contrast between the
two is almost cartoonish. I would describe her as Mediterranean in
appearance. |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 05:42:09 +0000, Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 12:36:20 GMT, Tony Cooper
tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 10:11:55 +0000, Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net
wrote:
ObAue: "Ulysses" has been translated into more than twenty languages.
What do translators do when they come to a paragraph like the above?
It's from Episode 12 - Cyclops if you happen to have a non-English
version of "Ulysses" at hand.
Yikes! *Chapter* 12.
"Episode", rather than "Chapter" is used quite a bit. For example,
see http://www.rte.ie/readingulysses/episode2.html which is RTE.ie's
webpage. That's Ireland's radio and television broadcast station.
I see that www.readprint.com uses it as well. Everyone should own a
copy of the work, but you can read _Ulysses_ in its entirety on that
site until you obtain one.
I'd have to look at a copy of the book to see which would be right.
In the edition I'm looking at, they aren't called anything at all,
neither are they named or numbered, although I've owned editions where
they are at least named. I do see a reference to "episodes" in the
reviewer's introduction, though, so it may have been just as well I
didn't Oy! you.
|
I was in Border's (bookstore) yesterday and checked three different
printings of "Ulysses". None of the three used "Chapter" or
"Episode". Just the number.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 12:36:20 GMT, Tony Cooper
<tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 10:11:55 +0000, Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net
wrote:
ObAue: "Ulysses" has been translated into more than twenty languages.
What do translators do when they come to a paragraph like the above?
It's from Episode 12 - Cyclops if you happen to have a non-English
version of "Ulysses" at hand.
Yikes! *Chapter* 12.
"Episode", rather than "Chapter" is used quite a bit. For example,
see http://www.rte.ie/readingulysses/episode2.html which is RTE.ie's
webpage. That's Ireland's radio and television broadcast station.
|
I see that www.readprint.com uses it as well. Everyone should own a
copy of the work, but you can read _Ulysses_ in its entirety on that
site until you obtain one.
| Quote: | I'd have to look at a copy of the book to see which would be right.
|
In the edition I'm looking at, they aren't called anything at all,
neither are they named or numbered, although I've owned editions where
they are at least named. I do see a reference to "episodes" in the
reviewer's introduction, though, so it may have been just as well I
didn't Oy! you.
I'd like to know what Jim himself called them. That's all that matters
to me.
--
Charles Riggs |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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|
On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 10:28:30 -0500, "TakenEvent"
<lightbulbsnickety@chartermi.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Cell phone reception in Fargo, North Dakota is excellent -- in case anyone
was thinking about visiting.
|
I would have thought that one of the primary virtues in visiting such
a place was to get away from mobile phones. Now you've taken that from
me, at least in the case of Fargo, North Dakota, formerly number one,
of course, on my list of towns I want to visit.
--
Charles Riggs |
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sage
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:28 am
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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|
Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: | "sage" <sage@allstream.net> wrote in message
news:IXvbf.1618$hW.340@tor-nn1...
Pat Durkin wrote:
"sage" <sage@allstream.net> wrote in message
news:dv8bf.1611$hW.220@tor-nn1...
Pat Durkin wrote:
"Tony Cooper" <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:f7fpm1t3eaevrd7igrdjcg3gcf28e81qli@4ax.com...
On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:30:39 +0000, JF <jf@NOSPAMmarage.demon.co.uk
I was sent a joke this morning that depends on misunderstood
English by
people from rural Minnesota. Are those from Minnesota the butt of
such
jokes in America? In England the joke could be rejigged to make
Irishmen
the fall (sic) guys.
(Snip)
Wisconsin has a goodly number of
Swedes, Norwegians, Danes and Finns. (I don't really know if the
Finns are considered Scandinavian, though.)
(Snip)
In reply to Pat Durkin's post (your signature and stuff disappeared):
Generally, in my experience, they consider themselves Nordic rather
than Scandinavian.
The Finns? I wonder about the Danes. I suppose the Baltic Sea makes
some difference in terms of separation. The Norwegians I know
frequently refer to themselves as Norskies, or as Scandihoovians.
Now, my niece married a Lithuanian, (I think the lad is first
generation US), and he is definitely Nordic in appearance. I don't
know how the Lithuanians compare (or regard themselves) in comparison
with the Letts or Estonians, or even Western Russians.
If by "Nordic in appearance" you mean blonde etc. then I have to say
that my two Norwegian friends are both tall and dark-haired.
The story goes that an Italian explorer drove his ship ashore some
centuries ago on rocks around the Lofoten Islands and decided to stay.
He was dark of hair and swarthy of visage, so my Norwegian friends
tell me ... just as they are.
Many Finns are dark of hair although there are lots of fair ones as a
result of the Swedish "occupation" and of course, the Germans were in
Finland during WWII. It's a country with a remarkable history.
I can recall descriptions of Finns that seemed to emphasize a Slavic
appearance (or even an Eskimo look), with dark hair, dark, narrow eyes,
and high or prominent cheekbones. The only Finn from Finnland that I
ever met was a tall young woman who was of Swedish ancestry. She was
Finnish only because the island she lived on belongs to Finland. I have
met others of Finnish descent, but can't say they looked particularly
"Nordic". Am I a racist to use the term? I thought it was a commonly
understood description of Northern Europeans, possibly those from the
Baltic peninsula, but also around the Baltic Sea. So, tall and blond is
what I mean.
The people of almost exclusively Norwegian from my area of Wisconsin are
basically tall and blond, but not invariably so. My niece's Lithuanian
husband is six feet, seven inches, with light brown to blond hair. My
niece, being of mixed Italian/Irish/German descent is just 5 feet one
inch in height, with dark hair, eyes and skin. The contrast between the
two is almost cartoonish. I would describe her as Mediterranean in
appearance.
You have a fascinating family. |
No, you aren't racist to use the term Nordic. It's a legitimate
description. As I said, elsewhere, my Finnish friends are happy to be
given the appellation.
Cheers, Sage |
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Jeffrey Turner
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:30 am
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
|
|
R H Draney wrote:
| Quote: | TakenEvent filted:
Cell phone reception in Fargo, North Dakota is excellent -- in case anyone
was thinking about visiting.
Doubtless this is an effect of the considerable number of Finnish residents....r
|
Nokiadding!
--Jeff
--
The spirit of democracy cannot be imposed
from without. It has to come from within.
--Mohandas K. Gandhi |
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Richard R. Hershberger
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
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|
Charles Riggs wrote:
| Quote: | On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 10:28:30 -0500, "TakenEvent"
lightbulbsnickety@chartermi.net> wrote:
Cell phone reception in Fargo, North Dakota is excellent -- in case anyone
was thinking about visiting.
I would have thought that one of the primary virtues in visiting such
a place was to get away from mobile phones. Now you've taken that from
me, at least in the case of Fargo, North Dakota, formerly number one,
of course, on my list of towns I want to visit.
|
I was in Fargo last summer for a wedding. I didn't get to see much of
the town, but I didn't get the impression I was missing much. I drove
by the Fargodome, where the local university plays football. I find it
disappointing that they play in a dome. Sure, sub-zero temperatures
are routine, but this is North Dakota, where men are men! On the plus
side, the church had a nice organ and a spectacular bas-relief wall
with each brick individually sculpted.
Richard R. Hershberger |
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Richard R. Hershberger
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:57 am
Post subject: Re: Why Minnesota? |
|
|
Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: | I can recall descriptions of Finns that seemed to emphasize a Slavic
appearance (or even an Eskimo look), with dark hair, dark, narrow eyes,
and high or prominent cheekbones. The only Finn from Finnland that I
ever met was a tall young woman who was of Swedish ancestry. She was
Finnish only because the island she lived on belongs to Finland. I have
met others of Finnish descent, but can't say they looked particularly
"Nordic".
|
I personally know two Finns, and they are both very very blond. I
don't mean blond in the sense of blonde jokes. They are both very
smart guys with wicked senses of humor. But physically they are the
blondest people I know other than my albino nephew-in-law. I don't no
anything about their family histories.
Richard R. Hershberger |
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