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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:30 am
Post subject: Is a thumb a finger? |
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I'm always a little hesitant to say that I have five fingers
on each of my hands, because I'm not certain that a thumb
can be properly called a finger.
I find it a little amusing to see a Merriam-Webster
lexicographer wrestling with that problem in the _11th
Collegiate_. He or she defined thumb as follows:
1 : the short thick digit of the human hand that is
analogous in position to the big toe and differs from
the other fingers in having only two phalanges,
The definition starts with calling the thumb a "digit". So
far so good. But then in the same sentence there is "the
other fingers", which implies that the thumb is, after all,
a finger.
Four of the fingers have their own names, the index finger,
the ring finger, the pinkie, and the one next to the index
finger that I don't know a nice name for. I know a name
that's not so nice, but I'll refrain from saying it.
I suggest that we call the thumb the "fat finger" and have
done with the doubt.
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Salvatore Volatile
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:30 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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The Grammer Genious wrote:
| Quote: | Alan <in_flagrante@hotmail.com> wrote
I'm a native speaker of English (SF Bay Area, California) and it's my
experience that "index", "middle", "ring", "litttle" (aka "pinky") are all
QUITE common, and I've never been aware of "ring finger" applying only to
the left.
As for calling them 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th ----- I've NEVER heard ANY
native
English speaker (either British or American) use those terms.
I'm a native speaker too (Michigan) and I agree with all of that.
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I'm a native speaker three (Brooklyn [FLCIA]) and I agree with all of
that, except to say that for me the fifth finger is the "pinky" (and not
"the pinky finger", although that can be found in archaic materials). |
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Bill Bonde ('by a commodi
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:49 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: |
Re: Is a thumb a finger?
If you have opposable thumbs, do you have two thumbs on each hand? |
--
Had Tolstoy confined himself to war or peace, he could have been
finished in seven hundred and fifty pages.
--
In a day and age when some people would think nothing of throwing stones
at Rosa Parks, she dared to rock the bus. Bully for her!
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:52 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Bob Cunningham skrev:
| Quote: | I'm always a little hesitant to say that I have five fingers
on each of my hands, because I'm not certain that a thumb
can be properly called a finger.
|
Have you ever counted on your fingers? I guess you have. Did you
use your thumb?
| Quote: | Four of the fingers have their own names, the index finger,
the ring finger, the pinkie, and the one next to the index
finger that I don't know a nice name for. I know a name
that's not so nice, but I'll refrain from saying it.
|
All five fingers have Danish names:
"Tommeltot" (intranslatable), "pegefinger" (point finger),
"langemand" (long man), "guldbrand" (gold fire) and "lillefinger"
(little finger". We also use "ringfinger" for the ring finger.
| Quote: | I suggest that we call the thumb the "fat finger" and have
done with the doubt.
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But it has a(n English) name already - and I have no doubt (in
this matter).
--
Bertel
Denmark |
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Harvey Van Sickle
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:57 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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On 04 Nov 2005, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote
| Quote: | Bob Cunningham skrev:
I'm always a little hesitant to say that I have five fingers
on each of my hands, because I'm not certain that a thumb
can be properly called a finger.
Have you ever counted on your fingers? I guess you have. Did you
use your thumb?
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Haven't we just done this -- at great length? I seem to recall
that there's a pondian difference as to whether one starts counting
with the thumb or index finger as "one".
(I use my thumb for "one" for regular counting, but the index
finger if it's a count-down sort of situation.)
--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:33 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:52:10 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
<nospamfilius@lundhansen.dk> said:
| Quote: | Bob Cunningham skrev:
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[...]
| Quote: | I suggest that we call the thumb the "fat finger" and have
done with the doubt.
But it has a(n English) name already
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Yes, "thumb", but that's out of harmony with the convention
for naming the others. All of the others have the form
"<adjective> finger". Calling the thumb the "fat finger"
would bring it into line with the finger-naming convention.
> - and I have no doubt (in this matter). |
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Default User
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:20 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
| Quote: | On 04 Nov 2005, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote
Bob Cunningham skrev:
I'm always a little hesitant to say that I have five fingers
on each of my hands, because I'm not certain that a thumb
can be properly called a finger.
Have you ever counted on your fingers? I guess you have. Did you
use your thumb?
Haven't we just done this -- at great length? I seem to recall
that there's a pondian difference as to whether one starts counting
with the thumb or index finger as "one".
(I use my thumb for "one" for regular counting, but the index
finger if it's a count-down sort of situation.)
|
I always save the thumb for last because it's busy holding down the
fingers that haven't yet counted. I also start counting with my left
hand.
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) |
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Ted Schuerzinger
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:40 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Somebody claiming to be Harvey Van Sickle <harvey.news@ntlworld.com> wrote
in news:Xns9704E95DFC5E8whhvans@80.5.182.99:
| Quote: | On 04 Nov 2005, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote
Bob Cunningham skrev:
I'm always a little hesitant to say that I have five fingers
on each of my hands, because I'm not certain that a thumb
can be properly called a finger.
Have you ever counted on your fingers? I guess you have. Did you
use your thumb?
Haven't we just done this -- at great length? I seem to recall
that there's a pondian difference as to whether one starts counting
with the thumb or index finger as "one".
(I use my thumb for "one" for regular counting, but the index
finger if it's a count-down sort of situation.)
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I'm Leftpondian, and the thumb is definitely "1". At least, it's the
"first finger" in all the piano music I had to play when I took piano
lessons as a lad.
--
Ted <fedya at bestweb dot net>
Oh Marge, anyone can miss Canada, all tucked away down there....
--Homer Simpson |
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batdorf
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:58 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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"Ted Schuerzinger" <fedya@bestweb.spam> escribió en el mensaje
news:Xns9704C693414EA8jUwe9053kODf78sfkj0@ID-121946.user.dfncis.de...
| Quote: | I'm Leftpondian, and the thumb is definitely "1". At least, it's the
"first finger" in all the piano music I had to play when I took piano
lessons as a lad.
That might explain Rhapsody in Blue... |
HumphreyB |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 05:20:07 +0000, Charles Riggs
<chriggs@éircom.net> said:
| Quote: | On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 22:30:58 GMT, Bob Cunningham
exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote:
I suggest that we call the thumb the "fat finger" and have
done with the doubt.
But the thumb is not a finger.
|
Dictionaries have different takes on that issue. One that
unequivocally calls the thumb a finger is the _Cambridge
Advanced Learner's Dictionary_:
thumb
noun
the short thick finger on the side of your hand
which makes it possible to hold and pick things
up easily
One that carefully avoids even implying that the thumb might
be called a finger is the _American Heritage Dictionary of
the English Language: Fourth Edition_:
thumb
1a. The short thick digit of the human hand, next
to the index finger and opposable to each of the
other four digits.
And, again, Merriam-Webster definitions begin by calling the
thumb a digit, but later imply that it's a finger by
referring to "the other fingers". From the Merriam-Webster
Unabridged Dictionary:
thumb
1 a : the short and thick first or most preaxial
digit of the human hand differing from the other
fingers in having but two phalanges and in having
greater freedom of movement and being opposable
to the other fingers.
With reputable dictionaries coming down on both sides of the
issue, what unimpeachable authority can we cite to show
unexceptionably that the thumb is or is not a finger?
Another thing to think about is that the finger that's
between the index finger and the ring finger is commonly
called the middle finger. In a discrete set, you can't have
a middle member unless the number of members in the set is
odd. The name "middle finger" requires that the total
number of fingers be five, which in turn requires that the
thumb be considered a finger.
| Quote: | We have four fingers and a thumb on each hand. Why change
the language on this point when it's working so well?
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I would agree with you if I could believe that your
statement that we have four fingers and a thumb, rather than
five fingers, on each hand were incontrovertible. |
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R H Draney
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Alan filted:
| Quote: |
I'm a native speaker of English (SF Bay Area, California) and it's my
experience that "index", "middle", "ring", "litttle" (aka "pinky") are all
QUITE common, and I've never been aware of "ring finger" applying only to
the left.
|
In Spanish guitar, the fingers of the right hand are called "Pollex", "Index",
"Medius", "Annularis" and "Minimus" (and you don't use "Minimus")...I would
imagine the actual names in Spanish of the various digits resemble the
Latin...it's interesting that the one that would otherwise have no
distinguishing characteristic is still associated with rings...music annotated
for beginning pickers is covered with repetitions of the word "PIMA"....
| Quote: | As for calling them 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th ----- I've NEVER heard ANY native
English speaker (either British or American) use those terms.
|
They all have distinct names in Japanese too...and in fact the thumb is
"oya-yubi", where just plain "yubi" means finger...this seems to suggest that in
Japan, the thumb *is* considered a sort of finger....
There is no generally accepted convention for applying common names to the toes,
although I did once tell a podiatrist who asked me which one was bothering me
that it was "the one that had roast beef"...I don't recommend this with someone
who's holding a scalpel to your flesh....r |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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On Fri, 04 Nov 2005 22:30:58 GMT, Bob Cunningham
<exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote:
| Quote: | I suggest that we call the thumb the "fat finger" and have
done with the doubt.
|
But the thumb is not a finger. We have four fingers and a thumb on
each hand. Why change the language on this point when it's working so
well?
--
Charles Riggs |
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Ted Schuerzinger
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Somebody claiming to be "Alan" <in_flagrante@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:j1Vaf.9830$D13.1816@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
| Quote: | I'm a native speaker of English (SF Bay Area, California) and it's my
experience that "index", "middle", "ring", "litttle" (aka "pinky")
are all QUITE common, and I've never been aware of "ring finger"
applying only to the left.
As for calling them 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th ----- I've NEVER heard ANY
native English speaker (either British or American) use those terms.
|
I agree with most of this, except that, as I alluded in another post 1st
through 5th fingers was common usage when I took piano lessons; the scores
often had small numbers above certain notes and chords suggesting which
fingers would best be used to play them so that one could get one's
fingers to the next notes most efficiently. But that's a specialized
field.
--
Ted <fedya at bestweb dot net>
Oh Marge, anyone can miss Canada, all tucked away down there....
--Homer Simpson |
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Alan
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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"Robert Bannister" <robban@it.net.au> wrote in message
news:3t2in0FqpoljU1@individual.net...
| Quote: | Bob Cunningham wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:52:10 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
nospamfilius@lundhansen.dk> said:
Bob Cunningham skrev:
[...]
I suggest that we call the thumb the "fat finger" and have
done with the doubt.
But it has a(n English) name already
Yes, "thumb", but that's out of harmony with the convention
for naming the others. All of the others have the form
"<adjective> finger". Calling the thumb the "fat finger"
would bring it into line with the finger-naming convention.
I wonder how people use these names - I don't even know them all. Most
people I know will occasionally use "index finger". "Ring finger" is used
too, but only for the left hand. The only common ones are "little finger"
(for which, I believe, some Americans use a different name) and "middle
finger". Otherwise, they are just first, second, third, fourth, which does
cause confusion for those who start with the thumb.
--
Rob Bannister
I'm a native speaker of English (SF Bay Area, California) and it's my |
experience that "index", "middle", "ring", "litttle" (aka "pinky") are all
QUITE common, and I've never been aware of "ring finger" applying only to
the left.
As for calling them 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th ----- I've NEVER heard ANY native
English speaker (either British or American) use those terms. |
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The Grammer Genious
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Alan <in_flagrante@hotmail.com> wrote
| Quote: | I'm a native speaker of English (SF Bay Area, California) and it's my
experience that "index", "middle", "ring", "litttle" (aka "pinky") are all
QUITE common, and I've never been aware of "ring finger" applying only to
the left.
As for calling them 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th ----- I've NEVER heard ANY
native
English speaker (either British or American) use those terms.
|
I'm a native speaker too (Michigan) and I agree with all of that. |
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