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Ben Zimmer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:12 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Salvatore Volatile wrote:
| Quote: | Bob Cunningham wrote:
In what sense does "sandwiches" include "hamburgers"?
In no sense, unless perhaps you think of a patty melt as a hamburger.
Has anyone seen the Sprint (?) walkie-talkie commercial which takes place
in something like a nuclear power plant, with the two guys arguing over
what a BLT should be called? It reminded me of AUE. (HIMTA?)
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Yes, when I first saw it I immediately thought that it must have been
created by a denizen of AUE, mebbe even that Areff guy. Who else would
come up with lines like "In the sandwich world, the bread is a given" or
"Mayonnaise is a condiment -- condiments don't get initials"?
For those who haven't seen it, the ad is described here:
http://www.benmcmath.com/story.php?id=113
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Ben Zimmer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:15 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Ben Zimmer wrote:
| Quote: | Salvatore Volatile wrote:
Has anyone seen the Sprint (?) walkie-talkie commercial which takes
place in something like a nuclear power plant, with the two guys
arguing over what a BLT should be called? It reminded me of AUE.
(HIMTA?)
Yes, when I first saw it I immediately thought that it must have been
created by a denizen of AUE, mebbe even that Areff guy. Who else would
come up with lines like "In the sandwich world, the bread is a given" or
"Mayonnaise is a condiment -- condiments don't get initials"?
For those who haven't seen it, the ad is described here:
http://www.benmcmath.com/story.php?id=113
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Even better, here's the commercial itself:
http://www.sprintpcsinfo.com/articles/989/sandwich_30_final.mpg |
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Default User
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:51 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: | In what sense does "sandwiches" include "hamburgers"? How
many Americans when asked to name all the sandwiches they
can think of would think to include hamburgers? I don't
think I would. To me a sandwich is two slices of bread with
something in between. A split hamburger bun is not two
slices of bread.
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So sliced ham and Swiss cheese on a split Kaiser roll wouldn't be a
sandwich to you? It is to me.
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:25 am
Post subject: Re: "bap" and "bun" [was: Re: Is a thumb a finger?] |
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the Omrud wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | It was very early in my AUE life that I explained my theory that
you
can place a Brit (geographically and to a lesser extent socially)
by
the name he gives to the round bread product into which is placed a
hamburger, and that the rest of his origins can be ascertained by a
careful study of the names he gives to other bakery items.
One day I should codify this knowledge.
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You should. We redid the bap and related things here only about three
months ago, I think.
--
Mike. |
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Default User
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:51 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Salvatore Volatile wrote:
| Quote: | Default User wrote:
Bob Cunningham wrote:
In what sense does "sandwiches" include "hamburgers"? How
many Americans when asked to name all the sandwiches they
can think of would think to include hamburgers? I don't
think I would. To me a sandwich is two slices of bread with
something in between. A split hamburger bun is not two
slices of bread.
So sliced ham and Swiss cheese on a split Kaiser roll wouldn't be a
sandwich to you? It is to me.
I think it's the hamburger -- the meat itself -- that prevents a
hamburger from being a sandwich. A hamburger patty differs
substantially from normative sandwich fillings or meats in both
structure and function.
Take a hamburger bun and put peanut butter on the inside of one half
and jelly on the inside of the other half, and put them together, and
you have a sandwich.
|
I would tend to agree with this. Conversely, when I was kid we often
had at home hamburger patties that were served between two pieces of
white bread. That didn't make them sandwiches, they were still
hamburgers, although less desireable ones (cue the Eddie Murphy routine
on that subject).
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) |
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Spehro Pefhany
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:33 am
Post subject: Re: "bap" and "bun" [was: Re: Is a thumb a finger?] |
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On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 21:25:00 -0000, the renowned "Mike Lyle"
<mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
| Quote: | the Omrud wrote:
[...]
It was very early in my AUE life that I explained my theory that
you
can place a Brit (geographically and to a lesser extent socially)
by
the name he gives to the round bread product into which is placed a
hamburger, and that the rest of his origins can be ascertained by a
careful study of the names he gives to other bakery items.
One day I should codify this knowledge.
You should. We redid the bap and related things here only about three
months ago, I think.
|
Bap is Korean for rice (as in Bi Bim Bap), and bun is Vietnamese for
noodles such as vermicelli. But the baguette used to make a Vietnamese
sub is called a banh.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:06 am
Post subject: burger [was: Re: Is a thumb a finger?} |
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On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 20:40:40 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
<me@privacy.net> said:
[...]
| Quote: | Take a hamburger bun and put peanut butter on the inside of one half
and jelly on the inside of the other half, and put them together, and you
have a sandwich.
|
To me it sounds more like a peanut-butter-and-jelly-burger. |
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JF
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:15 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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X-No-Archive: yes
In message <dkr2g8$ufh$1@news.wss.yale.edu>, Salvatore Volatile
<me@privacy.net> writes
| Quote: | I think it's the hamburger -- the meat itself -- that prevents a hamburger
from being a sandwich.
|
The pattie has nothing to with it. It's the lack of two slices of bread,
or a single folded slice, that determines that it's not a sandwich.
| Quote: | A hamburger patty differs substantially from
normative sandwich fillings or meats in both structure and function.
Take a hamburger bun and put peanut butter on the inside of one half
and jelly on the inside of the other half, and put them together, and you
have a sandwich.
|
No matter how exotic or disgusting the contents of a bap are, it's not a
sandwich.
--
James Follett |
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Default User
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:04 am
Post subject: Re: burger [was: Re: Is a thumb a finger?} |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 20:40:40 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
me@privacy.net> said:
[...]
Take a hamburger bun and put peanut butter on the inside of one
half and jelly on the inside of the other half, and put them
together, and you have a sandwich.
To me it sounds more like a peanut-butter-and-jelly-burger.
|
I would expect that to be peanut butter and jelly, on a burger.
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) |
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Robert Bannister
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:11 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: | On 7 Nov 2005 12:27:11 -0800, "jerry_friedman@yahoo.com"
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> said:
Bob Cunningham wrote:
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 08:31:47 +0000, Charles Riggs
chriggs@éircom.net> said:
[...]
How about this? We have five fingers on each hand, but
the thumb by itself is not called a finger.
That's an interesting point. Can you think of an analogous
case? A discrete set comprising N "x"es where one of the
"x"es is not called an "x"? I've tried, but without
thinking of one so far.
There are a million of them. In American English, vehicles comprise
cars, trucks, vans, buses, SUVs, and maybe motorcycles and ATVs, but
only SUVs (and ATVs) are called vehicles.
How confident are you that that is true? My impression is
that a well-trained police officer will never say "car" when
"vehicle" will do as well.
|
Our state Commissioner for Police has caused consternation by requesting
that police reports be given in plain English. Expressions like "the
suspect proceeded in a northerly direction" are to be banned. Officers
are tight-lipped.
--
Rob Bannister |
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Robert Bannister
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:13 am
Post subject: Re: "bap" and "bun" [was: Re: Is a thumb a finger?] |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 17:33:02 +0000, JF
jf@NOSPAMmarage.demon.co.uk> said:
In message <oil1n1d7mvjmbit4uqvjishaav2jnjlkq4@4ax.com>, Bob Cunningham
exw6sxq@earthlink.net> writes
In what sense does "sandwiches" include "hamburgers"? How
many Americans when asked to name all the sandwiches they
can think of would think to include hamburgers? I don't
think I would. To me a sandwich is two slices of bread with
something in between. A split hamburger bun is not two
slices of bread.
You're on a roll, Bob. A split bap isn't a sandwich.
When I redd "bap", I thought it surely must be a typo. To
my surprise, the _New Shorter Oxford_ (_NSOED_) says it's "a
large soft bread roll".
Interesting to see, while _NSOED_ doesn't give it any usage
tag, the _Merriam-Webster 11th Collegiate_ says "chiefly
Scotland : a small loaf or roll of bread".
And the _Oxford English Dictionary_ says of "bap"
A small loaf or ‘roll’ of bakers' bread, made of
various sizes and shapes in different parts of
Scotland.
Is it really mostly Scottish, or is it in general use in the
UK?
|
It certainly was when I lived there, and is it is alive and well here in
Australia. I buy them regularly when I forget to bake my own bread.
Note: they must be dusted with flour or else they're not proper baps.
--
Rob Bannister |
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Default User
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:37 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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JF wrote:
| Quote: | The pattie has nothing to with it. It's the lack of two slices of
bread, or a single folded slice, that determines that it's not a
sandwich.
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I disagree.
| Quote: | No matter how exotic or disgusting the contents of a bap are, it's
not a sandwich.
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I disagree. I don't use the term "bap". It's meaningless in my idiolect.
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) |
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Tony Cooper
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 20:40:40 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
<me@privacy.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Default User wrote:
Bob Cunningham wrote:
In what sense does "sandwiches" include "hamburgers"? How
many Americans when asked to name all the sandwiches they
can think of would think to include hamburgers? I don't
think I would. To me a sandwich is two slices of bread with
something in between. A split hamburger bun is not two
slices of bread.
So sliced ham and Swiss cheese on a split Kaiser roll wouldn't be a
sandwich to you? It is to me.
I think it's the hamburger -- the meat itself -- that prevents a hamburger
from being a sandwich. A hamburger patty differs substantially from
normative sandwich fillings or meats in both structure and function.
A few years ago they closed the last Frisch's Big Boy that was located |
in this area. The company seems to have withdrawn to the Midwest.
One of my favorite sandwiches was the Frisch's Tenderloin. It was a
huge piece of breaded pork tenderloin in a bun. For some reason I
always put ketchup on this sandwich even though I don't put ketchup on
any other meat.
If you doubt that a hamburger is a sandwich because the meat is not a
normative sandwich filling, then do you also deny the Frisch's
Tenderloin the status of "sandwich"?
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL |
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Bob Cunningham
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: burger [was: Re: Is a thumb a finger?} |
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On 9 Nov 2005 00:04:59 GMT, "Default User"
<defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> said:
| Quote: | Bob Cunningham wrote:
On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 20:40:40 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
me@privacy.net> said:
[...]
Take a hamburger bun and put peanut butter on the inside of one
half and jelly on the inside of the other half, and put them
together, and you have a sandwich.
To me it sounds more like a peanut-butter-and-jelly-burger.
I would expect that to be peanut butter and jelly, on a burger.
|
For me, the hamburger is the whole works: bun, meat patty,
tomato, onion, lettuce, dill pickle, and catsup or mustard
or a suitable sauce.
The peanut-butter-and-jelly-burger comprises the bun, the
peanut butter, and the jelly.
Your concept seems to be that the bun alone is the burger.
To each his own. |
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Salvatore Volatile
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 2:05 pm
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Tony Cooper wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 8 Nov 2005 20:40:40 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
me@privacy.net> wrote:
I think it's the hamburger -- the meat itself -- that prevents a hamburger
from being a sandwich. A hamburger patty differs substantially from
normative sandwich fillings or meats in both structure and function.
A few years ago they closed the last Frisch's Big Boy that was located
in this area. The company seems to have withdrawn to the Midwest.
One of my favorite sandwiches was the Frisch's Tenderloin. It was a
huge piece of breaded pork tenderloin in a bun. For some reason I
always put ketchup on this sandwich even though I don't put ketchup on
any other meat.
If you doubt that a hamburger is a sandwich because the meat is not a
normative sandwich filling, then do you also deny the Frisch's
Tenderloin the status of "sandwich"?
|
I've never had a Frisch's Tenderloin, Coop. From the way you describe it,
I think it might indeed not be a sandwich. |
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