| Author |
Message |
R J Valentine
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 09:21:49 -0800 Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
....
} When learning guitar, I found that numbers are also used...but with
} different meanings. There "one" is the index finger and "four" is the
} ring finger.
....
Oy!
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:rj@theWorld.com> |
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R J Valentine
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:52:10 +0000 Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net> wrote:
....
} Wouldn't "fat finger" be more descriptive? On each hand, only my
} little finger is shorter than my thumb.
....
ObRey: Measuring from where?
ObTopic: The thumb is the two-phalanged finger.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:rj@theWorld.com> |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 02:25:07 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"Charles Riggs" <chriggs@éircom.net> wrote in message
news:oujqm1tejbshge3ss4lhegibphssj4miav@4ax.com...
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:53:32 GMT, Bob Cunningham
exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 09:28:31 -0800, Evan Kirshenbaum
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> said:
Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> writes:
And, again, Merriam-Webster definitions begin by calling the
thumb a digit, but later imply that it's a finger by
referring to "the other fingers". From the Merriam-Webster
Unabridged Dictionary:
thumb
1 a : the short and thick first or most preaxial
digit of the human hand differing from the other
fingers in having but two phalanges and in having
greater freedom of movement and being opposable
to the other fingers.
With reputable dictionaries coming down on both sides of the
issue, what unimpeachable authority can we cite to show
unexceptionably that the thumb is or is not a finger?
The other definition to look at is "finger". MWCD11 says
1 : any of the five terminating members of the hand : a digit of
the forelimb; _especially_ : one other than the thumb
So they definitely consider the thumb to be a finger, but it's not a
canonical finger.
I continue to feel that it would be good to change the name
of the thumb to the big finger.
Wouldn't "fat finger" be more descriptive? On each hand, only my
little finger is shorter than my thumb.
In addition to giving more
consistent nomenclature to the digits on the hand, this
would be in harmony with "the big toe".
A point in its favour, yes.
Incidentally, we have a big toe, but I don't remember names
for any of the other toes. Can we call them the index toe,
the middle toe, the ring toe, and the little toe?
I think only the little toe and the big toe commonly have names.
5 toes.
This little piggy went to "market".
This little piggy stayed "home".
This little piggy had "roast beef".
This little piggy had "none".
This little piggy cried "wee wee wee!" all the way home.
Does that do it for you, Charles?
|
Uh...not quite. It seems they're all called little piggies under that
classification system -- *one* name, whereas Bob proposed two.
| Quote: | (I can't believe I recalled the whole thing!)
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--
Charles Riggs |
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Adam Grinter
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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"Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3t2c63FqcakdU1@individual.net...
I also start counting with my left
Eureka! So do I.
I never thought of that before, but it's absolutely true.
I'm right handed. Do left-handers start with their right? |
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Harvey Van Sickle
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 6:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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On 06 Nov 2005, Adam Grinter wrote
| Quote: |
"Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3t2c63FqcakdU1@individual.net...
I also start counting with my left
hand.
Eureka! So do I.
I never thought of that before, but it's absolutely true.
I'm right handed. Do left-handers start with their right?
|
I'm right handed, too -- but I start counting with my right.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van |
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Evan Kirshenbaum
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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R J Valentine <rj@TheWorld.com> writes:
| Quote: | Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
...
} When learning guitar, I found that numbers are also used...but with
} different meanings. There "one" is the index finger and "four" is the
} ring finger.
...
Oy!
|
I told you it confused me. Yeah. Four is the pinkie.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |...as a mobile phone is analogous
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |to a Q-Tip -- yeah, it's something
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |you stick in your ear, but there
|all resemblance ends.
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Ross Howard
(650)857-7572
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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Peter Duncanson
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:05 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 13:25:02 +0000 (UTC), R J Valentine <rj@TheWorld.com>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 09:21:49 -0800 Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
...
} When learning guitar, I found that numbers are also used...but with
} different meanings. There "one" is the index finger and "four" is the
} ring finger.
...
Oy!
|
Some people are born with six digits on a hand.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.u.e) |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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"Charles Riggs" <chriggs@éircom.net> wrote in message
news:4dlrm1tego0efaqfiublg0foi4ng2r1dkc@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 02:25:07 GMT, "Pat Durkin" <durk183@sbcglobal.com
wrote:
"Charles Riggs" <chriggs@éircom.net> wrote in message
news:oujqm1tejbshge3ss4lhegibphssj4miav@4ax.com...
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:53:32 GMT, Bob Cunningham
exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 09:28:31 -0800, Evan Kirshenbaum
kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> said:
Bob Cunningham <exw6sxq@earthlink.net> writes:
And, again, Merriam-Webster definitions begin by calling the
thumb a digit, but later imply that it's a finger by
referring to "the other fingers". From the Merriam-Webster
Unabridged Dictionary:
thumb
1 a : the short and thick first or most preaxial
digit of the human hand differing from the other
fingers in having but two phalanges and in having
greater freedom of movement and being opposable
to the other fingers.
With reputable dictionaries coming down on both sides of the
issue, what unimpeachable authority can we cite to show
unexceptionably that the thumb is or is not a finger?
The other definition to look at is "finger". MWCD11 says
1 : any of the five terminating members of the hand : a digit
of
the forelimb; _especially_ : one other than the thumb
So they definitely consider the thumb to be a finger, but it's not
a
canonical finger.
I continue to feel that it would be good to change the name
of the thumb to the big finger.
Wouldn't "fat finger" be more descriptive? On each hand, only my
little finger is shorter than my thumb.
In addition to giving more
consistent nomenclature to the digits on the hand, this
would be in harmony with "the big toe".
A point in its favour, yes.
Incidentally, we have a big toe, but I don't remember names
for any of the other toes. Can we call them the index toe,
the middle toe, the ring toe, and the little toe?
I think only the little toe and the big toe commonly have names.
5 toes.
This little piggy went to "market".
This little piggy stayed "home".
This little piggy had "roast beef".
This little piggy had "none".
This little piggy cried "wee wee wee!" all the way home.
Does that do it for you, Charles?
Uh...not quite. It seems they're all called little piggies under that
classification system -- *one* name, whereas Bob proposed two.
|
Piggies, toes, fingers, digits. |
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Linz
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:14 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:52:10 +0000, Charles Riggs <chriggs@éircom.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:53:32 GMT, Bob Cunningham
exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrote:
I continue to feel that it would be good to change the name
of the thumb to the big finger.
Wouldn't "fat finger" be more descriptive? On each hand, only my
little finger is shorter than my thumb.
|
My index and ring fingers are the same width as my thumbs. Which is
the "fat finger"?
--
The point of education is to correct ignorance. It cannot deal with stupidity.
(Mortimer Hebblethwaite, uk.misc) |
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:17 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Arfur Million skrev:
| Quote: | Piano music published for the UK also use that convention.
However, other countries (eg Germany) start counting the
fingers at 1 for the index finger, and use a different symbol
("+" IIRC) for the thumb.
|
No, they do not. With guitar music they count the same way as it
has been described here, but not with piano music.
And they use the ten-finger system for writing on a typewriter
like we do in Denmark (if we have learnt it).
--
Bertel
Denmark |
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R H Draney
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:58 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Peter Duncanson filted:
| Quote: |
Some people are born with six digits on a hand.
|
Others have six digits on a hand thrust upon them....
(Luckily, it doesn't happen often)....r |
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batdorf
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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"Ted Schuerzinger" <fedya@bestweb.spam> escribió en el mensaje
news:Xns9705EBFD889CE8jUwe9053kODf78sfkj0@ID-121946.user.dfncis.de...
| Quote: | German has a key of B; it's what English speakers call B-flat.
|
And English happens to be the language we are using...
When is a B not a B?
When a German says "H", don't you see...
It's a natural we'd need
If we're not to mislead...
So let's just use sol-fa and say "te".
Humphrey..er..H |
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Arfur Million
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:16 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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"Bertel Lund Hansen" <nospamfilius@lundhansen.dk> wrote in message
news:y5anrtpzzxc0.13fgzicg5do32$.dlg@40tude.net...
| Quote: | Arfur Million skrev:
Piano music published for the UK also use that convention.
However, other countries (eg Germany) start counting the
fingers at 1 for the index finger, and use a different symbol
("+" IIRC) for the thumb.
No, they do not. With guitar music they count the same way as it
has been described here, but not with piano music.
|
Your post has caused me to have grave suspicions about my memory. Germany
even gives its name to the system of fingering beginning the thumb with one
(see for instance "German fingering" at http://www.dolmetsch.com/defsg.htm).
Furthermore, it is "English fingering" that refers to the system that starts
with the index finger (see http://www.dolmetsch.com/defse.htm) - a system
which is now obsolete. Now I think about it, I do remember some very old
English sheet music using this notation, but I also thought I remembered my
piano teacher of the 60's giving me some old German sheet music which
followed this convention too. So much for my memory.
The way I played it, it sounded as if I used the thumb for every note.
Regards,
Arfur |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:27 am
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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Bob Cunningham wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 08:31:47 +0000, Charles Riggs
chriggs@éircom.net> said:
[...]
How about this? We have five fingers on each hand, but
the thumb by itself is not called a finger.
That's an interesting point. Can you think of an analogous
case? A discrete set comprising N "x"es where one of the
"x"es is not called an "x"? I've tried, but without
thinking of one so far.
|
There are a million of them. In American English, vehicles comprise
cars, trucks, vans, buses, SUVs, and maybe motorcycles and ATVs, but
only SUVs (and ATVs) are called vehicles.
I hesitate to mention this, but we've had a lot of talking at
cross-purposes in this group because sandwiches include hamburgers, but
many Americans wouldn't call a hamburger a sandwich.
--
Jerry Friedman |
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Ross Howard
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Is a thumb a finger? |
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On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 22:37:11 GMT, Bob Cunningham
<exw6sxq@earthlink.net> wrought:
| Quote: | On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:53:32 GMT, Bob Cunningham
exw6sxq@earthlink.net> said:
[...]
Incidentally, we have a big toe, but I don't remember names
for any of the other toes. Can we call them the index toe,
the middle toe, the ring toe, and the little toe?
The only other names I remember for the toes are the piggy
that went to market, the piggy that stayed home, the piggy
that had roast beef, the piggy that had none, and the piggy
that cried "wee wee wee" all the way home.
|
The Pond strikes again. In BrE the second little piggy stayed *at*
home.
--
Ross Howard |
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