| Author |
Message |
Andrew
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:43 pm
Post subject: lovin' |
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Hi,
I've kind request for info about using the apostrophe at the example as
above. Does lovin' mean the same as loving?
Thanks,
Regards,
Andrew |
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Lars Eighner
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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|
In our last episode,
<dkfl24$245$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl>,
the lovely and talented Andrew
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
| Quote: | Hi,
I've kind request for info about using the apostrophe at the example as
above. Does lovin' mean the same as loving?
|
Short answer: yes.
We recently covered the topic of -ng pronounced as n, and that
is what "lovin'" supposedly represents.
Both "loving" and "lovin'" frequently refer to romantic or
sexual love, and both are often substituted for "fucking"
by those too fastidious (or too afraid of censors) to use
the stronger word.
--
Lars Eighner eighner@io.com http://www.larseighner.com/
I don't see posts from or threads started from googlegroups.
"If a book is worth reading, it is worth buying". --John Ruskin |
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:03 pm
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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|
Andrew skrev:
| Quote: | I've kind request for info about using the apostrophe at the example as
above. Does lovin' mean the same as loving?
|
Yes, but the pronunciation is a bit different. The apostrophe
(here) means that a letter is missing, and that corresponds to a
common pronunciation where it ends with a 'pure' n as in "in" -
not the 'combined' ng-sound as in "sing".
--
Bertel
Denmark |
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Don Phillipson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:34 pm
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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|
"Andrew" <andrew_809@poczta.onet.pl> wrote in message
news:dkfl24$245$1@nemesis.news.tpi.pl...
| Quote: | I've kind request for info about using the apostrophe at the example as
above. Does lovin' mean the same as loving?
|
Yes -- because your question has to do with
conventions of writing (the convention of accepted
correct spelling) and not with the conventions of
either grammar or syntax. E.g. a word might be
written as bicycle or bisycle (former spelled right,
latter spelled wrong): but would have the same
meaning in whatever sentence, however spelled.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada) |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:30 pm
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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"Bertel Lund Hansen" <nospamfilius@lundhansen.dk> wrote in message
news:15k6qcuee1pjh$.1i9usq5xp772p$.dlg@40tude.net...
| Quote: | Andrew skrev:
I've kind request for info about using the apostrophe at the example
as
above. Does lovin' mean the same as loving?
Yes, but the pronunciation is a bit different. The apostrophe
(here) means that a letter is missing, and that corresponds to a
common pronunciation where it ends with a 'pure' n as in "in" -
not the 'combined' ng-sound as in "sing".
|
Sometimes one even hears the "i" pronounced as a schwa.
Lovun.
"Nothing spells lovun like something from the oven." (Maybe you
hear/say "Nothun", or even "nuthun".) I buy a bread branded "L'oven
Fresh".
Language is bent to suit the occasion, and spelling does its best to
keep up with the changes.
The tendency (tenduncy) to use very relaxed enunciation in informal
conversation is often (offun) depicted in text as what mplsray calls (He
won't claim to have invented the term) "eye-dialect".
The reader brings his own prejudices* to his reading. But I think Ray
would say that the use of "eye-dialect" is designed to create an image
of ignorance or infancy. Let's say, for example, that in my fiirst
sentence I spelled "hears" as "heres" (I did, but I corrected it). But
if Ray is readin' this, he will korrekt my effert and my explanashun.
*Bertel, I know you did not imply ignorance in your very excellent
reply. Ise just trine ta bring all the posts in this conversayhun
tagethur. |
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Bertel Lund Hansen
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:41 pm
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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Pat Durkin skrev:
| Quote: | Sometimes one even hears the "i" pronounced as a schwa.
|
Yes, I think "Lovin' Spoonful" is mostly pronounced that way.
| Quote: | *Bertel, I know you did not imply ignorance in your very excellent
reply.
|
No problem. This is usenet ...
--
Bertel
Denmark |
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Maria Conlon
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:01 am
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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|
Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: | Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Andrew skrev:
I've kind request for info about using the apostrophe at the example
as
above. Does lovin' mean the same as loving?
Yes, but the pronunciation is a bit different. The apostrophe
(here) means that a letter is missing, and that corresponds to a
common pronunciation where it ends with a 'pure' n as in "in" -
not the 'combined' ng-sound as in "sing".
Sometimes one even hears the "i" pronounced as a schwa.
Lovun.
"Nothing spells lovun like something from the oven." (Maybe you
hear/say "Nothun", or even "nuthun".) I buy a bread branded "L'oven
Fresh".
Language is bent to suit the occasion, and spelling does its best to
keep up with the changes.
The tendency (tenduncy) to use very relaxed enunciation in informal
conversation is often (offun)
|
Are you indicating that the 't' should be pronounced? Say it ain't so...
[...] |
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the Omrud
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:07 am
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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|
Maria Conlon <maria.c-b@sbcglobal.net> spake thusly:
| Quote: | Pat Durkin wrote:
The tendency (tenduncy) to use very relaxed enunciation in informal
conversation is often (offun)
Are you indicating that the 't' should be pronounced? Say it ain't so...
|
We've surely done this before. UK English has "often" as both/either
"offen" and/or "off ten". I use both forms under different
circumstances, but I have no idea how my tongue picks between them.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the |
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Maria Conlon
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:40 am
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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|
the Omrud wrote:
| Quote: | Maria Conlon spake thusly:
Pat Durkin wrote:
The tendency (tenduncy) to use very relaxed enunciation in informal
conversation is often (offun)
Are you indicating that the 't' should be pronounced? Say it ain't
so...
We've surely done this before. UK English has "often" as both/either
"offen" and/or "off ten". I use both forms under different
circumstances, but I have no idea how my tongue picks between them.
|
Both forms are used in the US, too, but I'm rather fussy about the
pronunciation of "often." (That is, I don't like hearing the 't'
sounded.)
It's a losing battle, of course, but I must stick up for truth, justice,
and the correct way of things.
(I borrowed that saying, more or less, from Superman, who is/was a
defender of "truth, justice, and the American way." The line is as
familiar to people of my generation as "fee-fee-fi-fi-fo-fo-fum, I smell
smoke in the auditorium....")
--
Maria Conlon |
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JF
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:04 am
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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|
X-No-Archive: yes
In message <_1Naf.3758$Lv.962@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, Maria Conlon
<maria.c-b@sbcglobal.net> writes
| Quote: | (I borrowed that saying, more or less, from Superman, who is/was a
defender of "truth, justice, and the American way." The line is as
familiar to people of my generation as "fee-fee-fi-fi-fo-fo-fum, I
smell smoke in the auditorium....")
|
Must've been borrowed from the giant in the pantomime "Jack and the
Beanstalk".
Fee Fi Foe thumb
I smell the blood of an Englishman
Be he straight or be he queer
I'll boil his blood to make my beer
Or sommat like that.
--
James Follett. |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:23 am
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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|
"Maria Conlon" <maria.c-b@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:gtMaf.3750$Lv.1280@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
| Quote: | Pat Durkin wrote:
Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Andrew skrev:
I've kind request for info about using the apostrophe at the
example
as
above. Does lovin' mean the same as loving?
Yes, but the pronunciation is a bit different. The apostrophe
(here) means that a letter is missing, and that corresponds to a
common pronunciation where it ends with a 'pure' n as in "in" -
not the 'combined' ng-sound as in "sing".
Sometimes one even hears the "i" pronounced as a schwa.
Lovun.
"Nothing spells lovun like something from the oven." (Maybe you
hear/say "Nothun", or even "nuthun".) I buy a bread branded "L'oven
Fresh".
Language is bent to suit the occasion, and spelling does its best to
keep up with the changes.
The tendency (tenduncy) to use very relaxed enunciation in informal
conversation is often (offun)
Are you indicating that the 't' should be pronounced? Say it ain't
so...
|
Well, most of my post dealt with the vowel sounds, not that Bertel was
talking about that. After that, it dealt with "spellun the sounds az we
sayum", with lost consonants, etc. I used to pronounce the "t" when I
read aloud, many a year ago, but I don't do that anymore. (Geez, can't
write a paragraph without running into an AUE taboo or trigger word. I
stopped reading that most recent thread about "anymore". What was the
conclusion? I suppose I should have written "any longer".) |
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Skitt
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:15 am
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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|
JF wrote:
| Quote: | X-No-Archive: yes
In message <_1Naf.3758$Lv.962@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net>, Maria
Conlon <maria.c-b@sbcglobal.net> writes
(I borrowed that saying, more or less, from Superman, who is/was a
defender of "truth, justice, and the American way." The line is as
familiar to people of my generation as "fee-fee-fi-fi-fo-fo-fum, I
smell smoke in the auditorium....")
Must've been borrowed from the giant in the pantomime "Jack and the
Beanstalk".
Fee Fi Foe thumb
I smell the blood of an Englishman
Be he straight or be he queer
I'll boil his blood to make my beer
Or sommat like that.
|
Something like
Musical: Smokey Joe's Cafe
Song: Charlie Brown
Fe fe fi fi fo fo fum
I smell smoke in the auditorium
Charlie Brown, Charlie Brown
He's a clown, that Charlie Brown
He's gonna get caught, just you wait and see
(Why's everybody always pickin' on me?)
That's him on his knees, I know that's him
From 7 come 11 down in the boys' gym
Charlie Brown, Charlie Brown
He's a clown, that Charlie Brown
He's gonna get caught, just you wait and see
(Why's everybody always pickin' on me?)
Who's always writing on the wall?
Who's always goofin' in the hall?
Who's always throwin' spit balls?
Guess who! (Who, me?) Yeah, you!
Who walks in the classroom cool and slow?
Who calls the English teacher Daddy-O?
Charlie Brown, Charlie Brown
He's a clown, that Charlie Brown
He's gonna get caught, just you wait and see
(Why's everybody always pickin' on me?)
Who walks in the classroom cool and slow?
Who calls the English teacher Daddy-O?
Charlie Brown, Charlie Brown
He's a clown, that Charlie Brown
He's gonna get caught, just you wait and see
(Why's everybody always pickin' on me?)
--
Skitt
I wonder how much deeper would the ocean be without sponges ... |
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Bill Bonde ('by a commodi
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:15 am
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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|
Maria Conlon wrote:
| Quote: |
the Omrud wrote:
Maria Conlon spake thusly:
Pat Durkin wrote:
The tendency (tenduncy) to use very relaxed enunciation in informal
conversation is often (offun)
Are you indicating that the 't' should be pronounced? Say it ain't
so...
We've surely done this before. UK English has "often" as both/either
"offen" and/or "off ten". I use both forms under different
circumstances, but I have no idea how my tongue picks between them.
Both forms are used in the US, too, but I'm rather fussy about the
pronunciation of "often." (That is, I don't like hearing the 't'
sounded.)
I was under the impression that the pronounced 't' was not |
etymologically sound and instead was based on an orthographic
hypercorrection, although I'm often off my nut so I'll look it up:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=often
#begin quote
Usage Note: During the 15th century English experienced a widespread
loss of certain consonant sounds within consonant clusters, as the (d)
in handsome and handkerchief, the (p) in consumption and raspberry, and
the (t) in chestnut and often. In this way the consonant clusters were
simplified and made easier to articulate. With the rise of public
education and literacy and, consequently, people's awareness of spelling
in the 19th century, sounds that had become silent sometimes were
restored, as is the case with the t in often, which is now frequently
pronounced. In other similar words, such as soften and listen, the t
generally remains silent.
#end quote
So I guess it isn't as bad as that extra 'u' that Webster tossed from
'humour' and 'honour' but it is loopy.
--
Had Tolstoy confined himself to war or peace, he could have been
finished in seven hundred and fifty pages.
--
In a day and age when some people would think nothing of throwing stones
at Rosa Parks, she dared to rock the bus. Bully for her! |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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|
Maria Conlon wrote:
| Quote: | Bill Bonde wrote:
Maria Conlon wrote:
the Omrud wrote:
We've surely done this before. UK English has "often" as
both/either "offen" and/or "off ten". I use both forms under
different circumstances, but I have no idea how my tongue picks
between them.
Both forms are used in the US, too, but I'm rather fussy about the
pronunciation of "often." (That is, I don't like hearing the 't'
sounded.)
I was under the impression that the pronounced 't' was not
etymologically sound and instead was based on an orthographic
hypercorrection, although I'm often off my nut so I'll look it up:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=often
#begin quote
Usage Note: During the 15th century English experienced a widespread
loss of certain consonant sounds within consonant clusters, as the (d)
in handsome and handkerchief, the (p) in consumption and raspberry,
and the (t) in chestnut and often. In this way the consonant clusters
were simplified and made easier to articulate. With the rise of public
education and literacy and, consequently, people's awareness of
spelling in the 19th century, sounds that had become silent sometimes
were restored, as is the case with the t in often, which is now
frequently pronounced. In other similar words, such as soften and
listen, the t generally remains silent.
#end quote
Interesting. I didn't know that.
Perhaps I'll start pronouncing the 't' in "often." [pause] Well, no, I
don't think I will.
|
Then there's "kiln," which just about everyone now pronounces as it is
spelled. The previous pronunciation was "kill," which is how it is
still pronounced in the name of Kiln, Mississippi.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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Maria Conlon
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:08 am
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
|
|
Bill Bonde wrote:
| Quote: | Maria Conlon wrote:
the Omrud wrote:
We've surely done this before. UK English has "often" as
both/either "offen" and/or "off ten". I use both forms under
different circumstances, but I have no idea how my tongue picks
between them.
Both forms are used in the US, too, but I'm rather fussy about the
pronunciation of "often." (That is, I don't like hearing the 't'
sounded.)
I was under the impression that the pronounced 't' was not
etymologically sound and instead was based on an orthographic
hypercorrection, although I'm often off my nut so I'll look it up:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=often
#begin quote
Usage Note: During the 15th century English experienced a widespread
loss of certain consonant sounds within consonant clusters, as the (d)
in handsome and handkerchief, the (p) in consumption and raspberry,
and the (t) in chestnut and often. In this way the consonant clusters
were simplified and made easier to articulate. With the rise of public
education and literacy and, consequently, people's awareness of
spelling in the 19th century, sounds that had become silent sometimes
were restored, as is the case with the t in often, which is now
frequently pronounced. In other similar words, such as soften and
listen, the t generally remains silent.
#end quote
|
Interesting. I didn't know that.
Perhaps I'll start pronouncing the 't' in "often." [pause] Well, no, I
don't think I will.
-- |
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