| Author |
Message |
Iain
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:00 pm
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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Maria Conlon wrote:
| Quote: | Pat Durkin wrote:
Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Andrew skrev:
I've kind request for info about using the apostrophe at the example
as
above. Does lovin' mean the same as loving?
Yes, but the pronunciation is a bit different. The apostrophe
(here) means that a letter is missing, and that corresponds to a
common pronunciation where it ends with a 'pure' n as in "in" -
not the 'combined' ng-sound as in "sing".
Sometimes one even hears the "i" pronounced as a schwa.
Lovun.
"Nothing spells lovun like something from the oven." (Maybe you
hear/say "Nothun", or even "nuthun".) I buy a bread branded "L'oven
Fresh".
Language is bent to suit the occasion, and spelling does its best to
keep up with the changes.
The tendency (tenduncy) to use very relaxed enunciation in informal
conversation is often (offun)
Are you indicating that the 't' should be pronounced? Say it ain't so...
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In Wales they say "LisTen", and I always say "ofTen" unless among the
working class Scots and lapse into the Lowland dialect. Of course,
they, like Chaucer, say "aye" for "often"(as well as for "yes"). Of
course I can't help skip the T sometimes when talking fast, but even
then there's a hint of glottal stop, or it's there in an underlying
sort of way along with the T in "basketball" said similarly fast.
~Iain |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:47 am
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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Raymond S. Wise wrote:
| Quote: | Maria Conlon wrote:
Bill Bonde wrote:
Maria Conlon wrote:
the Omrud wrote:
We've surely done this before. UK English has "often" as
both/either "offen" and/or "off ten". I use both forms under
different circumstances, but I have no idea how my tongue picks
between them.
Both forms are used in the US, too, but I'm rather fussy about
the
pronunciation of "often." (That is, I don't like hearing the 't'
sounded.)
I was under the impression that the pronounced 't' was not
etymologically sound and instead was based on an orthographic
hypercorrection, although I'm often off my nut so I'll look it
up:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=often
#begin quote
Usage Note: During the 15th century English experienced a
widespread
loss of certain consonant sounds within consonant clusters, as
the
(d) in handsome and handkerchief, the (p) in consumption and
raspberry, and the (t) in chestnut and often. In this way the
consonant clusters were simplified and made easier to articulate.
With the rise of public education and literacy and, consequently,
people's awareness of spelling in the 19th century, sounds that
had
become silent sometimes were restored, as is the case with the t
in
often, which is now frequently pronounced. In other similar
words,
such as soften and listen, the t generally remains silent.
#end quote
Interesting. I didn't know that.
Perhaps I'll start pronouncing the 't' in "often." [pause] Well,
no,
I don't think I will.
Then there's "kiln," which just about everyone now pronounces as it
is
spelled. The previous pronunciation was "kill," which is how it is
still pronounced in the name of Kiln, Mississippi.
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Aye to all the above, except for the "p" of "consumption" etc. That
intrusive "p" is quite normal between "m" and "t". Witness some
dialects of German, in which the word "amt" is commonly pronounced
"ampt".
--
Mike. |
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Maria Conlon
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:28 am
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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Raymond S. Wise wrote:
| Quote: |
Then there's "kiln," which just about everyone now pronounces as it is
spelled.
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Including yours truly (and with one syllable, of course).
| Quote: | .....The previous pronunciation was "kill," which is how it is
still pronounced in the name of Kiln, Mississippi.
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I didn't know that. I took a quick look at some Kiln (MS) sites, but
there was no mention of the pronunciation. Seems like there should have
been, seeing as how it's unusual.
--
Maria Conlon |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:04 pm
Post subject: Re: lovin' |
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Maria Conlon wrote:
| Quote: | Raymond S. Wise wrote:
Then there's "kiln," which just about everyone now pronounces as it is
spelled.
Including yours truly (and with one syllable, of course).
.....The previous pronunciation was "kill," which is how it is
still pronounced in the name of Kiln, Mississippi.
I didn't know that. I took a quick look at some Kiln (MS) sites, but
there was no mention of the pronunciation. Seems like there should have
been, seeing as how it's unusual.
--
Maria Conlon
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I first learned about the pronunciation of Kiln, Mississippi from a
post made to this group or to alt.english.usage . Before I wrote my
previous post, I verified it--perhaps I should put that in scare
quotes--I "verified" it by doing a Google search for
"kiln mississippi" "pronounced kill"
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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