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Message |
Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:56 am
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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Raymond S. Wise wrote:
| Quote: | Skitt wrote:
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
Skitt wrote:
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
no-email wrote:
"Raymond S. Wise" wrote
Please supply an example of the sort of usage you have in mind.
Point taken. Apologies for my brevity.
Which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is very popular in Boston and the rest
of the country.
(2) Networking computers are very popular in Boston and the rest
of the country.
Your advice would be appreciated.
The first is correct with the meaning, "It is very popular in
Boston and the rest of the country to network computers."
The second is correct with the meaning, "The type of computer (or
computers) which can be networked are very popular in Boston and
the rest of the country."
"The type of computer ... _is_ very popular ..." I'd think.
That occurred to me as well after I had written the sentence, but
since the way I put it seemed natural to me, I decided that
"computers" caused the sentence to require a plural verb, despite
"type" having been a singular noun. See the discussions of "notional
agreement" and "agreement by proximity" in *The American Heritage
Book of English Usage* at
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/060.html#SUBJECTANDV1
or "Computers which are being networked are very
popular in Boston and the rest of the country."
Yeah, but the "or computers" is enclosed in parentheses, leaving no
doubt about the singularity of "type" or "computer" of the main
sentence, no matter which you choose to justify your usage.
In my experience, such parenthetical matter has the exact same effect
on the form of the verb as would material not in parentheses. If you
could find a profession usage writer who argued in favor of proximity
agreement except when paretheses are involved, I would be very
surprised.
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I don't think that anyone has published anything on that. In any case,
here's what your quoted passage has on proximity:
===========
agreement by proximity. Certain grammatical constructions provide further
complications. Sometimes the noun that is adjacent to the verb can exert
more influence than the noun that is the grammatical subject. Selecting a
verb in a sentence like A variety of styles has been/have been in vogue for
the last year can be tricky. The traditional rules require has been, but the
plural sense of the noun phrase presses for have been. While 59 percent of
the Usage Panel insists on the singular verb in this sentence, 22 percent
actually prefer the plural verb and another 19 percent say that either has
or have is acceptable, meaning that 41 percent find the plural verb with a
singular grammatical subject to be acceptable.
============
I'll go with the majority opinion.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 6:05 am
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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Skitt wrote:
| Quote: | Raymond S. Wise wrote:
Skitt wrote:
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
Skitt wrote:
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
no-email wrote:
"Raymond S. Wise" wrote
Please supply an example of the sort of usage you have in mind.
Point taken. Apologies for my brevity.
Which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is very popular in Boston and the rest
of the country.
(2) Networking computers are very popular in Boston and the rest
of the country.
Your advice would be appreciated.
The first is correct with the meaning, "It is very popular in
Boston and the rest of the country to network computers."
The second is correct with the meaning, "The type of computer (or
computers) which can be networked are very popular in Boston and
the rest of the country."
"The type of computer ... _is_ very popular ..." I'd think.
That occurred to me as well after I had written the sentence, but
since the way I put it seemed natural to me, I decided that
"computers" caused the sentence to require a plural verb, despite
"type" having been a singular noun. See the discussions of
"notional agreement" and "agreement by proximity" in *The American
Heritage Book of English Usage* at
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/060.html#SUBJECTANDV1
or "Computers which are being networked are very
popular in Boston and the rest of the country."
Yeah, but the "or computers" is enclosed in parentheses, leaving no
doubt about the singularity of "type" or "computer" of the main
sentence, no matter which you choose to justify your usage.
In my experience, such parenthetical matter has the exact same effect
on the form of the verb as would material not in parentheses. If you
could find a profession usage writer who argued in favor of proximity
agreement except when paretheses are involved, I would be very
surprised.
I don't think that anyone has published anything on that. In any
case, here's what your quoted passage has on proximity:
===========
agreement by proximity. Certain grammatical constructions provide
further complications. Sometimes the noun that is adjacent to the
verb can exert more influence than the noun that is the grammatical
subject. Selecting a verb in a sentence like A variety of styles has
been/have been in vogue for the last year can be tricky. The
traditional rules require has been, but the plural sense of the noun
phrase presses for have been. While 59 percent of the Usage Panel
insists on the singular verb in this sentence, 22 percent actually
prefer the plural verb and another 19 percent say that either has or
have is acceptable, meaning that 41 percent find the plural verb with
a singular grammatical subject to be acceptable. ============
I'll go with the majority opinion.
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Oh, I forgot -- the parenthetical "computers" is certainly not the preferred
form for a phrase that starts with "this type of".
Googling for support --
"this type of computer" -- 23,700 hits
"this type of computers" -- 323 hits
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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no-email
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:33 pm
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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Hi,
Thanks to all for your answers.
cheers
"Jim Lawton" <usenet1@jimlawton.TAKEOUTinfo> wrote in message
news:en4mm1h4igoosjk1g7fr09c5frogdlo4d1@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 14:20:31 +0800, "no-email" <please@noemail.com> wrote:
"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message
Please supply an example of the sort of usage you have in mind.
Point taken. Apologies for my brevity.
Which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is very popular in Boston and the rest of the
country.
(2) Networking computers are very popular in Boston and the rest of the
country.
Your advice would be appreciated.
I surmise that what is actually meant is "Networked computers are ... ",
unless
you are talking about a job, in which case you want (1).
--
Jim
the polymoth |
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