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no-email
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:08 am
Post subject: grammar qn |
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hi,
which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is .....
(2) Networking computers are ....
your advice would be appreciated. |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:08 am
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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no-email wrote:
| Quote: | "Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message
Please supply an example of the sort of usage you have in mind.
Point taken. Apologies for my brevity.
Which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is very popular in Boston and the rest of the
country.
(2) Networking computers are very popular in Boston and the rest of the
country.
Your advice would be appreciated.
|
The first is correct with the meaning, "It is very popular in Boston
and the rest of the country to network computers."
The second is correct with the meaning, "The type of computer (or
computers) which can be networked are very popular in Boston and the
rest of the country." or "Computers which are being networked are very
popular in Boston and the rest of the country."
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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Martin Ambuhl
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:08 am
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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no-email wrote:
| Quote: | hi,
which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is .....
(2) Networking computers are ....
your advice would be appreciated.
|
Either, depending what you want to say.
1) "Networking" is the subject:
Networking computers is often easily done.
2) "Computers" is the subject:
Networking computers are sometimes found to have racing conditions.
Case 2 is perhaps better handled with "networked" unless the computers
are varying themselves on- and off-line, when the set of computers
actually networked may change from moment to moment. |
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no-email
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:08 am
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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"Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message >
| Quote: | Please supply an example of the sort of usage you have in mind.
Point taken. Apologies for my brevity. |
Which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is very popular in Boston and the rest of the
country.
(2) Networking computers are very popular in Boston and the rest of the
country.
Your advice would be appreciated. |
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| Back to top |
|
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:08 am
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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no-email wrote:
| Quote: | hi,
which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is .....
(2) Networking computers are ....
your advice would be appreciated.
|
John Lawler said recently posted the following advice to members of
this newsgroup:
"Never, never feel compelled to answer a question about words or
grammar rules unless the questioner is willing to provide complete
sentences as examples."
Your question shows why this is good advice.
Please supply an example of the sort of usage you have in mind.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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Yves Bellefeuille
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:08 am
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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On Fri, 04 Nov 2005, no-email wrote:
| Quote: | which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is .....
(2) Networking computers are ....
|
In the first case, you're talking about the networking. "Networking
computers is done by connecting them with... "
In the second case, you're talking about the computers. "Networking
computers are computers that are used for..."
--
Yves Bellefeuille <yan@storm.ca>
Google users: To reply to posts, click "show options" next to the
poster's name, and then click "Reply" in the line that says:
"Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message" |
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Fred
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:12 pm
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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"no-email" <please@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:dkerjb$19o$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
| Quote: | hi,
which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is .....
(2) Networking computers are ....
your advice would be appreciated.
|
Networking computers is easy to do.
Networking computers are throughout the building.
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Jim Lawton
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:49 pm
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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On Fri, 4 Nov 2005 14:20:31 +0800, "no-email" <please@noemail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | "Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message
Please supply an example of the sort of usage you have in mind.
Point taken. Apologies for my brevity.
Which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is very popular in Boston and the rest of the
country.
(2) Networking computers are very popular in Boston and the rest of the
country.
Your advice would be appreciated.
|
I surmise that what is actually meant is "Networked computers are ... ", unless
you are talking about a job, in which case you want (1).
Jim
the polymoth |
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John Dean
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 5:42 pm
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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no-email wrote:
| Quote: | hi,
which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is .....
(2) Networking computers are ....
your advice would be appreciated.
|
Both are correct. Well done!
--
John Dean
Oxford |
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Bob G
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:45 pm
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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no-email wrote:
| Quote: | hi,
which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is .....
(2) Networking computers are ....
your advice would be appreciated.
|
It depends on what the meaning of "is" is. |
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John Lawler
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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no-email <please@noemail.com> writes:
| Quote: | "Raymond S. Wise" <mplsray@my-deja.com> wrote in message
Please supply an example of the sort of usage you have in mind.
Point taken. Apologies for my brevity.
Which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is very popular in Boston and the rest of the
country.
(2) Networking computers are very popular in Boston and the rest of the
country.
Your advice would be appreciated.
|
My advice is that you're looking for the wrong thing.
You're looking for "correct", and they're both correct.
What Ray and others point out, they're *different*.
They don't mean the same thing.
They're exactly the same construction as Chomsky's
famous ambiguous sentence
Visiting relatives can be dangerous.
Which wouldn't be ambiguous if "can" were missing,
since that'd force distinguishing between
Visiting relatives are dangerous.
and
Visiting relatives is dangerous.
In the "are" version of your sentences, "networking" is a participle
modifying "computers". It is the computers that are doing the networking.
Alternatively, it could be a simple adjective functioning as a name; these
aren't just "xyz" computers, these are "networking" computers. Either way,
"computers" is the plural subject of "are", so that it is the computers
themselves that are popular. Not the activity of networking itself.
In the "is" version of your sentences, "networking" is a gerund with an
indefinite subject and "computers" as its direct object. The gerund clause
"networking computers" describes the activity of [somebody's] doing
something called "networking" to [several] computers. It is this activity
of "networking computers" that is the singular subject of "is", so that it
is the activity itself that is popular. Not the computers themselves.
So, stop worrying about which one is right,
and start worrying about which one you mean.
-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler U Michigan Linguistics
------------------------------------------------------------------
"A man does not know what he is saying until he knows what he
is not saying." -- G.K. Chesterton, 1936, "As I Was Saying" |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:28 am
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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Raymond S. Wise wrote:
| Quote: | no-email wrote:
"Raymond S. Wise" wrote
Please supply an example of the sort of usage you have in mind.
Point taken. Apologies for my brevity.
Which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is very popular in Boston and the rest of
the country.
(2) Networking computers are very popular in Boston and the rest of
the country.
Your advice would be appreciated.
The first is correct with the meaning, "It is very popular in Boston
and the rest of the country to network computers."
The second is correct with the meaning, "The type of computer (or
computers) which can be networked are very popular in Boston and the
rest of the country."
|
"The type of computer ... _is_ very popular ..." I'd think.
| Quote: | or "Computers which are being networked are very
popular in Boston and the rest of the country."
|
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:07 am
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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Skitt wrote:
| Quote: | Raymond S. Wise wrote:
no-email wrote:
"Raymond S. Wise" wrote
Please supply an example of the sort of usage you have in mind.
Point taken. Apologies for my brevity.
Which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is very popular in Boston and the rest of
the country.
(2) Networking computers are very popular in Boston and the rest of
the country.
Your advice would be appreciated.
The first is correct with the meaning, "It is very popular in Boston
and the rest of the country to network computers."
The second is correct with the meaning, "The type of computer (or
computers) which can be networked are very popular in Boston and the
rest of the country."
"The type of computer ... _is_ very popular ..." I'd think.
|
That occurred to me as well after I had written the sentence, but since
the way I put it seemed natural to me, I decided that "computers"
caused the sentence to require a plural verb, despite "type" having
been a singular noun. See the discussions of "notional agreement" and
"agreement by proximity" in *The American Heritage Book of English
Usage* at
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/060.html#SUBJECTANDV1
| Quote: |
or "Computers which are being networked are very
popular in Boston and the rest of the country."
|
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:23 am
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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Raymond S. Wise wrote:
| Quote: | Skitt wrote:
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
no-email wrote:
"Raymond S. Wise" wrote
Please supply an example of the sort of usage you have in mind.
Point taken. Apologies for my brevity.
Which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is very popular in Boston and the rest of
the country.
(2) Networking computers are very popular in Boston and the rest of
the country.
Your advice would be appreciated.
The first is correct with the meaning, "It is very popular in Boston
and the rest of the country to network computers."
The second is correct with the meaning, "The type of computer (or
computers) which can be networked are very popular in Boston and the
rest of the country."
"The type of computer ... _is_ very popular ..." I'd think.
That occurred to me as well after I had written the sentence, but
since the way I put it seemed natural to me, I decided that
"computers" caused the sentence to require a plural verb, despite
"type" having been a singular noun. See the discussions of "notional
agreement" and "agreement by proximity" in *The American Heritage
Book of English Usage* at
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/060.html#SUBJECTANDV1
or "Computers which are being networked are very
popular in Boston and the rest of the country."
|
Yeah, but the "or computers" is enclosed in parentheses, leaving no doubt
about the singularity of "type" or "computer" of the main sentence, no
matter which you choose to justify your usage.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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Raymond S. Wise
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 4:33 am
Post subject: Re: grammar qn |
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Skitt wrote:
| Quote: | Raymond S. Wise wrote:
Skitt wrote:
Raymond S. Wise wrote:
no-email wrote:
"Raymond S. Wise" wrote
Please supply an example of the sort of usage you have in mind.
Point taken. Apologies for my brevity.
Which of the following is correct?
(1) Networking computers is very popular in Boston and the rest of
the country.
(2) Networking computers are very popular in Boston and the rest of
the country.
Your advice would be appreciated.
The first is correct with the meaning, "It is very popular in Boston
and the rest of the country to network computers."
The second is correct with the meaning, "The type of computer (or
computers) which can be networked are very popular in Boston and the
rest of the country."
"The type of computer ... _is_ very popular ..." I'd think.
That occurred to me as well after I had written the sentence, but
since the way I put it seemed natural to me, I decided that
"computers" caused the sentence to require a plural verb, despite
"type" having been a singular noun. See the discussions of "notional
agreement" and "agreement by proximity" in *The American Heritage
Book of English Usage* at
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/060.html#SUBJECTANDV1
or "Computers which are being networked are very
popular in Boston and the rest of the country."
Yeah, but the "or computers" is enclosed in parentheses, leaving no doubt
about the singularity of "type" or "computer" of the main sentence, no
matter which you choose to justify your usage.
--
|
In my experience, such parenthetical matter has the exact same effect
on the form of the verb as would material not in parentheses. If you
could find a profession usage writer who argued in favor of proximity
agreement except when paretheses are involved, I would be very
surprised.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com |
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