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Salvatore Volatile
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:25 am
Post subject: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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In the past the curious topic of "purple" has been discussed here. The
strange thing about purple is that there's an official understanding of
purple, and then there's an arguably more common informal AmE
understanding of purple which corresponds closely to the Crayola notion of
"violet", purple proper (formal purple) being a much redder color than
what most Americans think of as purple most of the time.
Today I attended a talk by a fellow with a British accent and he pointed
to a Powerpoint slide thingie that had an illustration with a big area of
purple (in the informal AmE sense of Crayola violet). This British fellow
referred to that as "the blue area".
Was this a "one off", as we say in TCE, or have I discovered that BrE
thinks of informal AmE purple (Crayola violet) as "blue"?
Now I also know that roses are red and violets are blue, as the ancient
rhyme goes, but that's a whole nother issue. Crayola violet is purple; is
it blue in Britain? |
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Salvatore Volatile
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:48 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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Pat Durkin wrote:
| Quote: |
Used to be there was a chain of grocery stores named "Royal Blue". I
always thought of it as Royal Purple, because that is how I perceived
the color on the exterior of the store. Then, I discovered that "Royal
Blue" from the dyes of the eastern Mediterranean snails or shellfish,
and reserved for Roman royalty, was more like a purple.
All-American purple. . . Crayola purple.
|
I think of royal blue as a cross between blue and purple. I also think of
it as Shea Stadium blue. |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:32 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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Salvatore Volatile wrote:
| Quote: | In the past the curious topic of "purple" has been discussed here. The
strange thing about purple is that there's an official understanding of
purple, and then there's an arguably more common informal AmE
understanding of purple which corresponds closely to the Crayola notion of
"violet", purple proper (formal purple) being a much redder color than
what most Americans think of as purple most of the time.
|
I think a lot of people don't worry about those fine distinctions.
| Quote: | Today I attended a talk by a fellow with a British accent and he pointed
to a Powerpoint slide thingie that had an illustration with a big area of
purple (in the informal AmE sense of Crayola violet). This British fellow
referred to that as "the blue area".
Was this a "one off", as we say in TCE, or have I discovered that BrE
thinks of informal AmE purple (Crayola violet) as "blue"?
Now I also know that roses are red and violets are blue, as the ancient
rhyme goes, but that's a whole nother issue. Crayola violet is purple; is
it blue in Britain?
|
He may have an anomolous trichromat or even a dichromat. About 8
percent of men have faulty color vision, including
--
Your very humble and obedient servant,
Jerry Friedman,
To whom purple, violet, etc., often look blue. |
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Mike Lyle
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:34 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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Salvatore Volatile wrote:
[...]
| Quote: | Today I attended a talk by a fellow with a British accent and he
pointed to a Powerpoint slide thingie that had an illustration with
a
big area of purple (in the informal AmE sense of Crayola violet).
This British fellow referred to that as "the blue area".
Was this a "one off", as we say in TCE, or have I discovered that
BrE
thinks of informal AmE purple (Crayola violet) as "blue"?
Now I also know that roses are red and violets are blue, as the
ancient rhyme goes, but that's a whole nother issue. Crayola
violet
is purple; is it blue in Britain?
|
Roses are red, violets are blue. I like pecans: nuts to you.
But yes, you've noticed a Disturbing Phenomenon. There are indeed
Brits who think purple's a kind of blue. I dislike it most in
gardening catalogues: really blue flowers are important to me, and I
get summarily pissed off when these cataloguistas try to mislead me.
Anemone blanda comes forcibly to mind.
--
Mike. |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:50 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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Mike Lyle wrote:
| Quote: | Salvatore Volatile wrote:
[...]
Today I attended a talk by a fellow with a British accent and he
pointed to a Powerpoint slide thingie that had an illustration with
a
big area of purple (in the informal AmE sense of Crayola violet).
This British fellow referred to that as "the blue area".
Was this a "one off", as we say in TCE, or have I discovered that
BrE
thinks of informal AmE purple (Crayola violet) as "blue"?
Now I also know that roses are red and violets are blue, as the
ancient rhyme goes, but that's a whole nother issue. Crayola
violet
is purple; is it blue in Britain?
Roses are red, violets are blue. I like pecans: nuts to you.
But yes, you've noticed a Disturbing Phenomenon. There are indeed
Brits who think purple's a kind of blue. I dislike it most in
gardening catalogues: really blue flowers are important to me, and I
get summarily pissed off when these cataloguistas try to mislead me.
Anemone blanda comes forcibly to mind.
|
Do you grow blue flax, _Linum perenne_? In England, it would need
excellent drainage, no watering, maybe some lime, and any sun exposure
(BrE "full sun" = NewMexE "partial shade"). I'm not an expert, but
I've never heard anyone suggest that it's any color but pure blue.
Jerry's guide to flower colors:
lilac: watery light purple
lavender: watery light purple
lavender blue: watery light purple
blue-mauve: watery light purple
rose-purple: watery light purple
blue: watery light purple (unless the word "true" is used)
Jerry's guide to summer foliage and autumn grass colors:
bronze: brown
bronze-purple: brown
pink: brown
purple: sort of a dull cool sooty color
red: sort of a dull cool sooty color
black: sort of a dull cool sooty color
chartreuse: light green
yellow: light green
cream: light green
white: light green
gold: light green or brown
My deuteranomaly may be partly responsible for this, as may my alkaline
soil (which seems to turn some pink flowers purple), but the
copywriters are responsible too.
--
Jerry Friedman |
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Pat Durkin
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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"Salvatore Volatile" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:dk8thk$mgc$1@news.wss.yale.edu...
| Quote: | In the past the curious topic of "purple" has been discussed here.
The
strange thing about purple is that there's an official understanding
of
purple, and then there's an arguably more common informal AmE
understanding of purple which corresponds closely to the Crayola
notion of
"violet", purple proper (formal purple) being a much redder color than
what most Americans think of as purple most of the time.
Today I attended a talk by a fellow with a British accent and he
pointed
to a Powerpoint slide thingie that had an illustration with a big area
of
purple (in the informal AmE sense of Crayola violet). This British
fellow
referred to that as "the blue area".
Was this a "one off", as we say in TCE, or have I discovered that BrE
thinks of informal AmE purple (Crayola violet) as "blue"?
Now I also know that roses are red and violets are blue, as the
ancient
rhyme goes, but that's a whole nother issue. Crayola violet is
purple; is
it blue in Britain?
|
Used to be there was a chain of grocery stores named "Royal Blue". I
always thought of it as Royal Purple, because that is how I perceived
the color on the exterior of the store. Then, I discovered that "Royal
Blue" from the dyes of the eastern Mediterranean snails or shellfish,
and reserved for Roman royalty, was more like a purple.
All-American purple. . . Crayola purple. |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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Richard Fontana:
| Quote: | Now I also know that roses are red and violets are blue, as the ancient
rhyme goes, but that's a whole nother issue. Crayola violet is purple; is
it blue in Britain?
|
Chris Waigl:
| Quote: | I have no idea, but it might help to have some visual representation of
the colours in question. The Wikipedia article for "Crayola" supplies
this: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crayola> ...
|
If there's any color that a mechanism using RGB or a similar color model
-- whether via 4-color printing, color film, TV, or computer monitors --
is *least* likely to reproduce correctly, it's violet. Think about it.
If you want a reliable standard of comparison, you need to talk about
physical objects instead. Richard had the right idea by bringing crayons
into it, and other people by mentioning flowers.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "The frencited scrivener, I, outspode."
msb@vex.net --Jonathan Buss |
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Mark Brader
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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Joe Fineman:
| Quote: | the Purple Heart (the
U.S. equivalent of the Iron Cross -- what is it in Britain?).
|
William H.:
The nearest US equivalent of the Victoria Cross would be the
("Congressional") Medal of Honor.
I have no idea about the Iron Cross.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | English is just getting used to the telephone.
msb@vex.net | -- John Lawler |
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William
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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Joe Fineman wrote:
| Quote: | the Purple Heart (the
U.S. equivalent of the Iron Cross -- what is it in Britain?).
|
Victoria Cross
http://www.victoriacross.net/default.asp
--
WH |
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Joe Fineman
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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Salvatore Volatile <me@privacy.net> writes:
| Quote: | In the past the curious topic of "purple" has been discussed here.
The strange thing about purple is that there's an official
understanding of purple, and then there's an arguably more common
informal AmE understanding of purple which corresponds closely to
the Crayola notion of "violet", purple proper (formal purple) being
a much redder color than what most Americans think of as purple most
of the time.
|
When I was little, I thought of "purple" as the ordinary word for the
color for which "violet" was the fancy word. I can actually remember
reciting the spectrum as "red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple".
Then, in high school, I learned the mnemonic "Roy G. Biv" & became
sophisticated, tho I never learned to distinguish indigo from violet.
(I think the color of the spot or stripe that stood for the digit 7 on
condensers -- excuse me, capacitors -- or resistors was called violet
in the standard.) For me, now, the purples are not one color but a
range of colors -- the mixtures of red & violet, near that dashed line
at the bottom of the chromaticity diagram, and not too near the ends.
That, at any rate, accounts for the color of the Purple Heart (the
U.S. equivalent of the Iron Cross -- what is it in Britain?).
--
--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net
||: What sinners remember best is that they were happy while  |
||: sinning. | |
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Skitt
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
| Quote: | He may have an anomolous trichromat or even a dichromat. About 8
percent of men have faulty color vision,
[...] |
I was going to say something, but oh, why bother.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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PR
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:13 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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"Joe Fineman" wrote:
| Quote: | When I was little, I thought of "purple" as the ordinary word for the
color for which "violet" was the fancy word. I can actually remember
reciting the spectrum as "red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple".
Then, in high school, I learned the mnemonic "Roy G. Biv" & became
sophisticated, tho I never learned to distinguish indigo from violet.
|
I always think of violet as the color of violets (weird, huh?) and purple as
a redder, plumly color... more synęsthetically juicy than violet. And it has
the flavor of raisins. |
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Chris Waigl
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:13 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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On Tue, 01 Nov 2005 23:25:40 +0000, Salvatore Volatile wrote:
| Quote: | Now I also know that roses are red and violets are blue, as the ancient
rhyme goes, but that's a whole nother issue. Crayola violet is purple; is
it blue in Britain?
|
I have no idea, but it might help to have some visual representation of
the colours in question. The Wikipedia article for "Crayola" supplies
this: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crayola> for those who, like me, are
unfamiliar with this particular brand.
Me, I'm having much more problems with what passes as "maroon". I'd call
it "burgundy" or somesuch.
Chris Waigl
--
blog: http://serendipity.lascribe.net/
eggcorns: http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/ |
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PR
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:13 am
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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"Mike Lyle" wrote:
| Quote: | There are indeed Brits who think purple's a kind of blue.
I dislike it most in gardening catalogues: really blue
flowers are important to me, and I
get summarily pissed off when these cataloguistas try to mislead me.
Anemone blanda comes forcibly to mind.
|
I know what you mean. It happens in the US too. It's also fun when even the
photo itself shows a purple flower, which is called blue in the description
or named 'Blue something.'
For true blues I recommend flax (linum perenne), blue delphinium, blue
columbine (I'm from Colorado; is it a rarety elsewhere?), morning glories
(ipomoea tricolor), Siberian squill (scilla siberica), lobelia, and
bachelor's button (centaurea cyanus). And of course Photoshopped versions of
other flowers, such as tulips.
I understand there's even a true blue Himalayan poppy out there somewhere,
but I've never enjoyed the good fortune of seeing one. |
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Charles Riggs
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:25 pm
Post subject: Re: AmE "Purple" (CrayE "Violet") = BrE "Blue"? |
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On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 01:36:56 GMT, Joe Fineman <joe_f@verizon.net>
wrote:
| Quote: | Then, in high school, I learned the mnemonic "Roy G. Biv" & became
sophisticated, tho I never learned to distinguish indigo from violet.
|
Roy B Biv is fine as far as it goes, but there are an infinite number
of colours. Why even try to name them? When I paint, not that I'm an
accomplished artist, I mix a few paints together until the result
looks more or less right. I don't attempt to put a name to the result.
I could add that Real Men don't say "mauve", but we've done that.
--
Charles Riggs |
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